Brexiteers moving the goal posts ever further

[Apileofballyhoo]

So first it was a really tiny amount of the population fighting to have a referendum. The vast majority of the population didn't care about the EU or being in it or out of it. Moderates still gave in - moderates in the Tory party, to keep their party together.

Then in the referendum it was fighting to leave the EU, but said that leaving would mean having close ties like Norway.

Leavers shifted the goal posts to wanting the least possible relationship with the EU, and for a lot of Leavers abruptly ending all relationships by No Deal is the only way, and indeed Brexiteers/Leavers like Farage are actively calling for and encouraging others to call for No Deal. Moderates and remainers are now accepting the least possible relationship with the EU, to avoid No Deal. (I do know that some Remainers are unwilling to compromise this far.)

When No Deal is achieved, what will Nigel Farage and the other forces behind him and with him want? What will the next shift in the goalposts be? What will they convince people of next?

I think it will be "billions wasted on the NHS".

The goal is divergence from the EU from its courts, policies future Federation plans, monetary union et al. Remainers are failing to understand that their wish for convergence with the EU Superstate has been vetoed by the voting majority. We dont want it, never had a chance to vote for it and are resistant to being forced into it secretly.

That is piffle Sheldon. The GBP had little interest in the EU. Life was usually sweet, and the govt of the UK was to blame for austerity.

Now we are being invited to say we actually voted for an unregulated economy, in the pay of the U.S. of A. for the finacial benefit of the very rich, who will slash workers rights as soon as they can.

Brexit is and AWAYS was about money and how the rich can become richer. EU convergence is just a load of old bollocks.

InfiniteSheldon

When those goals are achieved, what do you think might be the next major thing a minority want and do their best to stir up a majority to agree to? By moving goalposts?

Now we are being invited to say we actually voted for an unregulated economy, in the pay of the U.S. of A. for the finacial benefit of the very rich, who will slash workers rights as soon as they can.

Quite.

Spelled out quite clearly here:

www.theguardian.com/politics/2019/sep/06/backstop-boris-johnson-brexit-deal-changes-defence-workers-rights

The goal is divergence from the EU, from its courts...

Which courts, plural? How many?

But those workers' rights are stopping the economy from booming, songs! We want people to be a lot poorer so they have to work longer hours for us for a pittance!

A lot of policitians and the elite who are pro-leave are actually going to be profiting a lot from bets/investments on the back of the leave, so it is not all noble.

The biggest issue is that the whole Brexit thing is not about the EU - so much of the problem is from this country and this government, but rather than deal with the problems here, the EU is just blamed and the anger pushed there.

There are people (not all) who want Brexit because of how they are and what they perceive to be the EU's fault, but isn't. One of the big ones is immigration but the government could have brought in systems to monitor and remove EU citizens who are unemployed. Non-EU immigration is being roped in, but is nothing to do with Brexit.

There are many things on those lines that are being put at the EU's door and we need to get as far away as possible. All that will happen if we leave is that they then have to find a new scapegoat to blame the problems on rather than just this country deal with the issues it creates.

The UK has had every opportunity to oppose further integration with the EU, we've had numerous general elections since 1975 and have voted in pro EEC/EU govts every single time & not one single UKIP MP.

I believe, should we get brexit, we'll leave the ECHR & the UN, the overseas aid budget of 0.7% of GDP will be dropped too.

For Orwell fans, we are definitely now in "Four Legs Good, Two Legs Better" territory.

The vast majority of the population didn't care about the EU or being in it or out of it

The GBP had little interest in the EU

I don't think these statements are true. I think many people had concerns but there was nothing anyone could do until the referendum came along

Yes, totally. TM could have negotiated the deal totally differently. The red lines are all hers. I think plenty of people would have been happy with a Norway style deal.

@GirlsBlouse17

Then why did only 3.7m people vote for UKIP in 2015 ?

If it were such a concern, irrespective of our voting system, millions more would have, they didn't because it wasn't the huge issue you are trying to make out it was.

Like it or not, the pro brexit referendum vote was as much about how the UK is governed, esp inequality, as it was about the EU.

Well, numerous surveys, now re-visited, in the years leading up to the ref. indicates this to be true. I recall having v little awareness of such a profile - newspapers etc were not exactly brimming with the stuff, outwith end-of-the-news items about straight bananas and "bringing back £, shillings and p", both of which are nothing to do with the EU anyway.

I believe, should we get brexit, we'll leave the ECHR & the UN, the overseas aid budget of 0.7% of GDP will be dropped too.

Anything in fact that promotes peace and social progress.

I think brexiteers worship a perverse and extreme version of social Darwinism.
Wait till they restrict access to clean water in poor communities (as is already happening in some parts of the US, like Flint for instance). There is no limit to what they can do.

It's. it so much moving the goalposts as it is shifting the blame. Who will be blamed for everything once we aren't in the EU? Immigrants? Parliament? The elite? No chance of that. The poor?

Someone's in for it.

I think brexiteers worship a perverse and extreme version of social Darwinism.

Yes - but how are they going to persuade people to vote for their own demise? How can it be stopped?

Anyone who isn't stinking rich who votes Tory is voting for their own demise...

The ukip party was teeny and Blair policies, the lifting of work restrictions and subsequent chaos, combined with the credit crunch etc alerted people to our governments relationship with Europe.

How was it ever in the best interests of UK citizens to suddenly have the largest wave of immigration ever. When someone tried to raise this, then mp called her a bigot.

Then it came out it was never intended all a cock up, but we couldn't do anything about it, un fair rules we have to abide by, no level playing field.

Anyway ukip grew to such a threat with people wanting out employing 'tactical' voting that Cameron had to call referendum.

Leavers have been tactically voting for years. However only in the shadow of a new ge are those wanting to remain, thinking about voting lib dem!!

This tells you wherever the majority is and where the passion lies. No goal posts have shifted at all.

We have tried the eu project for 40+ years, watched the eu goal posts shift significantly! And decided we would rather be out.

No goal posts have shifted at all.

What utter nonsense. We've gone from 'easiest deal in history/Norway type arrangement would be just dandy' to 'we all knew we were voting for no deal because that's the only true Brexit.'

It's a cult.

How was it ever in the best interests of UK citizens to suddenly have the largest wave of immigration ever

I agree with you, it never was, a v stupid decision but a UK one.

However it still did not lead to the UK or indeed the Con party becoming eurosceptic, the ERG at its height never numbered more than 80 MPs and as i said, ukip didn't win any seats.

But we cannot roll back the clock and even Boris wants more immigration, the question is whether leaving the worlds largest trading bloc is good or bad.
I believe it to be a bad decision and so do MPs, inc most Con ones.

Maybe the royal family will be the next to go. They cost millions too.