Imagine I am an alien and I just landed, explain brexit to me..

[HattieMcNastie]

And what is happening right now in the simplist of terms please.

(Because I have seriously No idea what is happening)

Let's examine that italicised piece of text - but did not object when other members of the club chose to leave

Ahem, Scotland asking for a Section 30 to have indyref 2? "Now is not the time..." followed by Tory, Labour and LibDems all saying they won't "allow" it. Colonialism?

That's just "allowing" us to ask ourselves the question if we would like to be independent, btw.

Ahem, Scotland asking for a Section 30 to have indyref 2? "Now is not the time..." followed by Tory, Labour and LibDems all saying they won't "allow" it. Colonialism?

The caveat of material change has not yet occurred for a further referendum in Scotland to take place as Brexit has not happened. Reason it has not happened is that many MPs are trying to block Brexit.

If Scotland want a further referendum on independence from the UK tell the remain supporters who are trying to block Brexit to move aside and allow UK to leave the EU. Then the material change caveat for Scotland to have a further has occurred. In simple terms;

No Brexit = No material change

No material change = No Indey Ref. 2

No Indey Ref. 2 = Scotland's vote in 2014 to remain in UK prevails.

@Topseyt

Empire was a long time ago and the World has moved on. What I can't follow is why those from NI and ROI bang on about what British did in the past, but say little, if anything at all about World events last Century;

USA dropped two atomic bombs on Japan and effectively ended WWII. Since then USA and Japan have become big trading partners.

Germany are responsible for the biggest holocaust the World has seen in pursuit of World Control. However, many Countries think Germany is the best in the World and are in a Union that is headed by Germany. So those who have joined the EU are not obviously rattling on about Germany's bad deeds of the past.

Just wrestle his ray gun off him and shoot yourself in the foot with it.

The EU have granted concessions to the UK in their attempt to leave

A FTA is what UK is looking for. Solves everything, Irish border included.

but unfortunately the UK have no idea what they actually want

UK voted to leave the EU. Not happened yet as those who are tasked with implementing UK's departure have failed in their task. Many pro remain MPs are fighting against the 2016 vote even though 498 voted to trigger Article 50.

Parliament has ruled out a further EU referendum. Also parliament has rejected calls for a General Election. Yet remain supporters keep saying let the people choose? How can that happen if there is to be no further referendum and General Election is ruled out?

Many are saying the leave supporters don't know what they want. Recent votes in parliament tells me that remain supporters also don't know what they want.

I have nothing to add to this conversation, I just wanted to say thankyou to @HattieMcNastie for starting it and to all posters for putting their opinions and the facts down so eloquently and without this thread turning into a slagging match as a lot of brexit conversations I have witnessed have descended into.

@BobTheFishermansWife

Think the OP's intent was to create a humorous thread for entertainment. However, some on MN, particularly when the subject is brexit, think their opinion is the law and has to be accepted by others.

So, if us Irish keep going on about the past, what's an acceptable time to have remembering? Would you be ok with as long as first hand accounts are told of the brutality and murder at the hands of the British? Because if that's the case mysterytrip then it won't be for awhile.

What I can't follow is why those from NI and ROI bang on about what British did in the past, but say little, if anything at all about World events last Century

What posters appear not to get is that British historical action in Ireland still impacts ppls lives negatively.

Prior to the GFA Nationalists in Ireland were prevented from identifying as Irish and celebrating that Irish identity. Naturally that was of huge significance to people.

The beauty of the GFA was that it allowed them to claim that identity, giving it the same validity and recognition as a British identity. That sleight of hand was total genius in placating the nationalist side.

Now, they’re looking at a whacking great hard border, being ‘policed’ to visit what they see as their country, flashbacks to the bad days of the border and the triggering presence of the military.

And you don’t understand why that would evoke strong reactions? Really?

@MysteryTripAgain typically the fact it was for humour went right over my head during the nightfeed 😳 but I stand by it, both you and @MrsTerryPratchett have done an excellent job of making clear concise points.

@MrsTerryPratchett haven't seen any better explanation than that 🤣🤣🤣

Brilliant summary by MrsTerry, absolutely nails it

@MysteryTripAgain - Empire was a long time ago and the World has moved on.

Nobody mentioned empire until you put in your ludicrous suggestion that it was some sort of fluffy, benign social club.

What I can't follow is why those from NI and ROI bang on about what British did in the past, but say little, if anything at all about World events last Century;

Firstly, Irish people were not victims of imperialism by anyone other than the UK. It's also not very far in the past. In fact, the imperialistic behaviour is continuing today with brexit.

USA dropped two atomic bombs on Japan and effectively ended WWII. Since then USA and Japan have become big trading partners.

Plenty of Irish people protest at US actions. You only have to look at the protests over Pences's visit in the last few days.

Ireland and the UK had built excellent trading and cooperative relationships with the UK. Are you suggesting that we haven't?

Germany are responsible for the biggest holocaust the World has seen in pursuit of World Control.

Germany has recognised the evils of their past and has taken steps to ensure it never happens again. In contrast, the UK has never admitted the atrocities of their past. In fact, many, mainly little Englanders, hark back to the days of empire.

And this is why the shit show continues.
We were rushed into making a decision without knowing the full story.
Some were remain and some were leave, for many reasons which are valid on both sides.
People have been made to dig their heels into their own camp because the ( so called ) leaders are unable to organise a walk at a prep school and can only squabble over everything.
The majority voted to leave.
During elections people vote for who they wish to lead the country, the majority get in , others are not happy, but have to learn with the decision and get on with it.
People are not doing this, squabbles are escalating , the people are getting mightily pissed off , there is no foreseeable end to the shitstorm.
We are all doomed in one way or the other. It has gone on for far too long.

For walk read wank

@MysteryTripAgain - A FTA is what UK is looking for. Solves everything, Irish border included.

Nothing stopping the UK achieving an FTA other than UK's refusal up protect the GFA. An FTA would not resolve the border issue in and of itself.

@LaurieMarlow - Prior to the GFA Nationalists in Ireland were prevented from identifying as Irish and celebrating that Irish identity.

The GFA also legislated for civil rights for all. The troubles started be of institutionalised discrimination in the the areas of employment, housing etc. Electoral boundaries were Gerry meandered to ensure unionist majorities.

An FTA would not resolve the border issue in and of itself

Hmmn. I thought it would. However, happy to hear what additional assurance that those on the island of Ireland seek and what actions UK should take before EU agrees to a FTA.

@VictoriaBun

I would hope that our leaders would never even attempt to try and organize a w*nk at a prep school. Well it was well organized or badly organized does not change the inappropriateness of such action.

Can someone make a meme of MrsTP's explanation so I can share it far and wide. Love it! It pretty much also sums up the behaviour of many people I know who voted to leave and are currently baying for no deal.

@MysteryTripAgain - Hmmn. I thought it would. However, happy to hear what additional assurance that those on the island of Ireland seek and what actions UK should take before EU agrees to a FTA.

There are many cross-border and all-island cooperative measures that need to be considered. There is currently no template FTA that would allow a frictionless border. One option that would work proposes membership of the European Free Trade Association, alongside a temporary "comprehensive customs arrangement" and protocols relating to agri-food trade. However, negotiation of an FTA of this nature will take time and many of the UK red lines preclude this.

The UK has red lines that force the EU to require a guarantee that the border will be protected as the red lines preclude a trade agreement that will allow a frictionless border.

q

A bunch of self-serving fuckwits took an issue of incalculable political and economic complexity and dumbed it down to a yes or no question. Then they got everyone (including those whose only previous interest in voting was for X Factor) to vote in what was claimed to be a non-binding poll. Then somebody (we're not really sure who) decided the non-binding poll was binding afterall and proclaimed it "the democratic will of the people". There then followed 3 years of a sadly deluded woman trying to negotiate a deal that would give us all the good but none of the bad, even though she had the square root of fuck all to bargain with. Along the way, the Irish Backstop has got a fair few tongues wagging. Everyone is an expert on that issue apparently even though half the population probably think it's one of Michael Flatley's favourite jigs. The top trending search phrase on google is apparently "why am I xenophobe just because I don't like bloody foreigners". That's about it really.

The UK has red lines that force the EU to require a guarantee that the border will be protected as the red lines preclude a trade agreement that will allow a frictionless border

So the red lines that T May assumed what the leave voters wanted is the obstacle. The Greek, Yanis Varoufakis, made same comment on Question Time a few months ago.

So Johnson will now have to move, or relax, the red lines to get a FTA with EU.

I will buy that suggestion, but will DUP and ERG and the other no dealers buy it too.