Do Remainers wish their MPs had voted for Theresa Mays deal in light of the current chaos?

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I didn't vote as I'm so much on the fence my bum is sore.

I did decide I would go along with whatever was voted on and was surprised it was Leave.

More than happy with a Norway type deal, or a very soft Brexit if that was offered, equally happy to stay in. Not so happy about No Deal and am watching the whole bun fight with amazement.

I am honestly staggered at all the arguing and fighting that's going on but I just can't get excited like others seem to, let alone fight for one side or the other.

I am curious though at whether you experts think the MPs who voted against Theresa Mays deal are now regretting this as it seemed a reasonable compromise? At the time I think the Leavers voted no because of the close ties with the EU, and the Remainers voted no because they were determined Brexit could be defeated this way. Or have I got this all wrong?

What is happening now is 100% worse than TMs deal.

WA was terrible, which is why MPs on both sides of the debate voted against it, in historic numbers.
All it would have done is delayed the chaos by 2 years, at best.

The present chaos is because Johnson is not governing but dictating and from a position of weakness!
There is absolutely no reason to leave on the 31/10 and he could easily renegotiate a new WA by withdrawing Mays red lines but he wont because he in enthrall to the hard right ERG, these are people who would have fitted well in the 3rd Reich.

The WA was based on what leavers wanted - their red lines. The backstop was the EU’s response. This mess is all down to leavers, why didn’t they step up? Because they know it’s too hard and prefer to sit on the sidelines and jibe. leavers love to feel like the underdog (despite true establishment roots of the idea) so they need to keep up the rhetoric of being hard done by. It’s nonsense - they have had over three years to sort things out like adults but have failed to present a united goal. Leavers have won - why won’t they actually do what they voted for? Because they know it’s going to be shit and don’t want to take the blame - they want to be able to blame remainers and the EU as always

The WA was based on what leavers wanted - their red lines

This is where the debate come from. Voters were asked whether they wanted the UK to leave of remain in the UK. No mention of what leave was as there are many possible ways to leave the EU.

Of the leave supporters I know. their decision to vote leave was heavily influenced by the following:

EU officials (Barmier, Juncker, etc.) not elected by UK

Immigration out of Control.

Of those two key reasons the red line Freedom of Movement to reduce immigration would appear to fit. Others such as Customs Union, Single Market, etc., may well not have been in the leave voters minds at all. However, I would say the leave campaign did talk about being able to deal direct with Non EU Countries which under the present CU and SM is not possible as all has to go through the EU.

“No mention of what leave was as there are many possible ways to leave the EU.”

Which is precisely why we haven’t left yet - leavers have yet to come to a consensus. This is not the fault of remainers

The WA is not terrible. It is less good than what we have now, but it is the only palatable solution, to keep us out of complete chaos. Even with the backstop it is not terrible. The sooner MPs realise that the better, but the Brexit debacle will go on for years.

If we have no deal it will go on for years until we get back to “normal”, but would be very much more painful especially for the poorest.

If we revoke, the right wing Brexit party will gather again and god knows where we’ll end up.

There might be a possibility if remain parties get organised to effectively have a second referendum by campaigning on a remain vote and not standing against each other. I could see a complete change in how our democratic system works and a move away from FPTP in the future, and more collaborative working in parliament, which probably needs to happen.

In honesty, yes - I wish the WA had gone through now. As a committed Remainer I was pleased when it didn’t at the time. I thought that it would likely lead to a softer Brexit - perhaps something along the Norway model - or potentially even a second referendum.

What’s happening now is making me feel unbelievably angry for a lot of reasons. It feels like a coup by the right wing of the Tory party. I’m taken aback by how much venom I feel for them.

I don’t think the WA is great. I think we’d be much better off remaining. But I need certainty now. I’m nearly halfway through my second pregnancy and we really need to move house. We’re holding off doing anything about it as we’re scared that a No Deal Brexit may lead to the value of our new house plummeting (especially as we’re in London commuter-ville). So for selfish reasons we need some security, and if that’s Boris heralding a very slightly altered version of the WA as his own personal triumph then I think that I’d have to accept it. Much as I absolutely fucking hate him and the bunch of deplorables that has assembled around him.

leavers have yet to come to a consensus. This is not the fault of remainers

Different angles on that. There is only one version of remain and it requires no action.

What each of the 17.4 million who voted leave wanted from leave will never be known. Leave can be done in many ways.

It is MPs who can't decide in parliament as to what leave means.

Hence I think UK will leave with no deal as there is no argument what that means. UK leaves and all ties, laws and treaties with the EU lapse instantly.

I wish the WA had gone through too and the backstop had been open to joint renegotiation after the 2 year period.

As someone who has no right to an opinion as I didn't vote I am genuinely anxious about the outcome all round and the uncertainty of it all. There just seems to be no genuine, honest people in Parliament. They all have their agendas. Labour voted against TMays deal to force an election, despite many labour voters voting leave and the WA was relatively mild as deals go. Jeramy Corbyn is nothing but a communist disguised as Labour and communism has failed throughout the world. The Lib Dem's proved how untrustworthy they were in government. I'm lost for words at the cynicism and infighting in the Tory party and as for the Brexit party, I want to strangle Nigel Farage. Even the EU are not blameless as it's clear they were out to punish the U.K. for A50. If there is a GE I have no one I can vote for, they are all cynical, terrifying, self serving, lying bastards.

If this No Deal goes through I am going to lose some of my loveliest friends who are EU citizens and the chaos and misery it brings will last a generation.

We need a second referendum with options for no deal, Norway, TMs deal. That would get round the accusation of trying to overturn the original referendum and would surely be acceptable to all the different agendas? Surely the politicians would prefer anything than the mess everything is in?

I watching the rise of the Nazi party in the 1930s on TV and it's giving me cold shivers. I think this is the way our country is going.

“What each of the 17.4 million who voted leave wanted from leave will never be known. Leave can be done in many ways.

It is MPs who can't decide in parliament as to what leave means.

Hence I think UK will leave with no deal as there is no argument what that means. UK leaves and all ties, laws and treaties with the EU lapse instantly.”

Which makes the “Will of the people” completely meaningless, unless we remain, in which case you know you have satisfied the greatest number of those who voted

I voted remain so I'm not going to be happy with leaving but I understand it had to be done. The problem is that people who want to leave don't like the WA. I don't want my MP to vote for a deal that's not going to satisfy remain voters or leave voters. What's the point of that? And this is why we need a vote on the final deal, because at the moment there's no clear mandate for any form of brexit.

Which makes the “Will of the people” completely meaningless, unless we remain, in which case you know you have satisfied the greatest number of those who voted

Vote was a binary leave or remain decision. Remain has one version which is stay put and do nothing.

Leave can take several forms, but to ensure equal parity on the ballot paper the question had to be equally balanced between leave or remain.

Leaving the EU, whatever form it takes, reflects the decision of the majority vote to leave.

And this is why we need a vote on the final deal, because at the moment there's no clear mandate for any form of brexit

As MPs can't agree I think will never be a final deal other than no deal. Even if MPs agree a final deal, what question would voters be asked?

The only fair binary choice would be;

Leave with deal agreed by MPs, or

Leave with no deal.

To respect the result of the 2016 referendum the option to remain can't be included. Only after the 2016 referendum result, which was to leave, has been implemented can the subject of a further referendum be discussed.

No. The WA left us in a worse position than we're currently in - as far as I was concerned, so I couldn't wish that on my country.

Yes thank you MysteryTripAgain I understand what you are saying and do not need it repeatedly explained, but I disagree with your conclusion as it is not in fact logical

No. The WA left us in a worse position than we're currently in - as far as I was concerned, so I couldn't wish that on my country.

I thought so too. Paying to remain on worse terms!

but I disagree with your conclusion as it is not in fact logical

Okay so explain the logic why the results of all previous General Elections and Referendums have been respected, but the result of the 2016 referendum should be ignored?

If people have changed their minds they can vote for pro leave or pro remain Parties as they wish at the next General Election which may not be far away.

I also disagree with Mysterytrip.

No deal should never mean leave, no deal should be remain.

If I go into a car dealership, see a car I like and their best price is 100k so I say "No Deal", that means I'm not buying the car. It doesn't mean I'm committed to buying a worse car that's going to cost me more.

I explained upthread. You yourself said

“What each of the 17.4 million who voted leave wanted from leave will never be known. Leave can be done in many ways.

It is MPs who can't decide in parliament as to what leave means.

Hence I think UK will leave with no deal as there is no argument what that means. UK leaves and all ties, laws and treaties with the EU lapse instantly.”

And I replied

“Which makes the “Will of the people” completely meaningless, unless we remain, in which case you know you have satisfied the greatest number of those who voted”

You cannot have it both ways, sorry.

You cannot go around saying that leaving with no deal is satisfying the referendum result when it was absolutely not considered an option at the time of the referendum - it was “the easiest deal in history” and other such bollocks - whatever leave voters say now, no deal was not an option at the time of voting so no one has voted for it

No - I don't wish they'd voted to chop off just one hand instead of all the limbs. The whole thing is bloody madness with no discernible benefits other than guff about taking back control and handing it to the US 😡

I've been thinking about the car buying metaphor a lot. UK has had a Maserati but went to dealer saying...

"This sports car you sold me is slow, clapped out & unfit for purpose. I don't like it any more. I have lots of conditions about what car I want instead. I demand no rules requiring me to have a driver's license. I need to go off road a lot. I don't want an annual MOT"
Dealer: "Ok, you can have this old tractor instead."
Uk: "Why can't I have the porsche instead?"
Dealer: "You would need to have a license to drive it on the roads..."
UK: "That means I'll be tied to the rules you set forever! Unacceptable."
Dealer: "Privileges require responsibilities."
UK: "I'm going to make you hurt by delivering all my goods to you by wheelbarrow!"
Dealer (EU): "Suit yourself"

I don't want my MP to vote for a deal that's not going to satisfy remain voters or leave voters. What's the point of that? And this is why we need a vote on the final deal, because at the moment there's no clear mandate for any form of brexit

There is a fundamental misunderstanding about the WA and that is that it represents the final agreement between the UK and the EU. It does not. It merely sorts out the arrangements to leave.

It does not sort out the future relationship, although that is in the accompanying political declaration.

There is all to play for after the WA is agreed and in many ways I wish they'd just get it back before parliament, agree it and move on.