Can someone explain the Irish backstop to me in very simple words?

[Apolloanddaphne]

I am an intelligent woman with multiple degrees but i have to confess i have no idea what the back stop is. I am too scared to ask my DH or my friends lest they think i am an imbecile (lighthearted). I have tried googling it to read articles about it but i just don't get it.

One of my friends is Irish and has a piece in a newspaper today related this today. If it comes up in conversation next time i see him i would at least like to be able to say something semi intelligent about it!

Help me please. Use easy words. Thanks.

Thanks for the education apileofballyhoo I didn't know all that, interesting

Dione - my suspicion is that it is the older generation that feel this way. Would you agree?

I think I would agree Jewel. I was going to say "No", but then I realised that i am probably considered "older generation" by some.

I also think Arlene didn’t play the long game. Her own interests were best served by agreeing to the border in the sea and taking 1-2Bn every year from London for the “inconvenience” of being in the single market.

I do see that there are cultural differences, and I'm not denying them, but there are cultural differences all over the island.

Meanwhile...

www.mumsnet.com/Talk/_chat/3676398-I-m-in-London-and-nowhere-will-accept-NI-sterling

@Apileofballyhoo There's also the Irish Rugby team, representing NI and ROI, two national anthems and everything

History lessons are 99% crap. Another fine example of this is the way England teaches the start of WWII versus how it’s taught in Poland. Eye opening how subjective the curriculum is for a so called fact based subject!

Ps. Loving this thread! My book rec is an oldie, useful for pre-80s Irish history for the beginner. It’s Ireland a history by Robert kee. The tv series it accompanies is on youtube.

I lived in NI for a while. I didn't like it there. A strange people. Very suspicious of everyone. In Ireland everyone just trusts people until proven wrong - it was the opposite in the North. I hated it there.

alcoholic little sister

It always felt that, on average, people (especially men) from the north were much more coarse and aggressive and on edge than their equivalent south of the border.

Thanks huns 😚

Well...not huns in the Northern Irish/Scottish sense I suppose ;-)

@BackOnceAgainWithABurnerEmail

Agree re history curriculum, it is woefully bad and that has led to the lack of understanding about NI and is part of the reason we are in this mess.

Most Irish people, particularly those living in England will have experienced the puzzled look when you have to explain that Ireland is actually a separate country to the UK and no you do not own us and yes we do have an Irish passport not a British one, use Euros and even have our own language. An example was when I had to patiently explain this to a work colleague who could not understand why she had to use an international dial code to phone Dublin. It blew her mind. This is a well educated bright person who had managed to get through school and university without ever knowing this

Daily Mail asking questions but no answers

www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-7396745/STEPHEN-GLOVER-far-good-Boris-Johnson-plan.html

Just had a look at you're link chomalungo, the comments were an eye opener!! What really stood out was people from NI were all classed as Irish by posters and most don't give a shit if there's a hard border. Quote 'why should we care if the Irish want to kill each other'.....

Viola - sadly I have heard this from people who I thought were fairly liberal and tolerant. It's a bit sad that the DUP consider themselves so British because few others do.

I do not excuse any violence, either Loyalist or Republican. All terrorism is obviously wrong and in my opinion, unjustified.

I tell you what, I'm glad that @bowsy5 is absolutely NOT IN CHARGE of who is and isn't Irish. And the implication that eg my Donegal grandmother would have more in common with eg a Dub than my Derry in-laws is laughable.

There seems to be the idea that the backstop is being used as a ploy by ROI to force the issue and somehow get one over on the British

I would change this to:

The backstop is being used as a ploy by EU (Germany) to cancel Brexit force the issue and somehow get one over on the British

Mystery's last post will be respun as "It's the EU's fault we had to crash out!"

"They MADE us leave (on bad terms!). Bad Brexit is all their fault. They made it happen."

While I don't expect people to have an in-depth knowledge of stuff, I would have thought some of the basics on this would fall under the heading of "general knowledge ". The "I was never taught about it at school " argument is used all too frequently about all sorts of obvious stuff - a colleague (law graduate otherwise intelligent) asked me "who were we fighting in WWII- I didn't do history at school ".
There's this thing called the internet and there are BBC explainers (flawed or not) which generally give an easy to read overview.

Mystery's last post will be respun as "It's the EU's fault we had to crash out!"

No it will not. It takes two sides to make a deal. If there is no deal then both sides have failed.

If you look at the timeline of the negotiations the word backstop did not appear until July 2018. Even then EU referred to the backstop as maintaining EU law and custom regulations and Barnier was quoted as saying:

“But the EU also wants to keep control of its money, law, and borders. The UK should respect that.”

Barnier, however, said the talks this week had failed to convince him: “We have no objections in principle to this,” he said of what he calls an “all-UK backstop”

“But,” he added, “We have doubts that it can be done without putting at risk the integrity of our customs union, our common commercial policy, our regulatory policy and our fiscal revenue.

Lots of talk about protection of EU laws and EU's revenue, but no mention of GFA.

Those who experienced the troubles in NI or have families/relatives who were affected by the troubles are correct in being concerned about the GFA. However, I don't trust the EU's pretense that they are concerned too. Nor do I trust remain supporters who bang on about the GFA, but at same time still hurl around the old insults about those who are Irish.

For many the GFA is just a way of hoping the vote to leave the EU will be cancelled.

Mystery- what would be your solution to NI? Apologies if I missed it but as yet I have not heard or seen a credible solution to the island of Ireland conundrum. I have heard one quirky suggestion which is that NI should get a special Monaco style status.

@jewel1968

I wish there was a solution, but every suggestion so far has received objection. However, here is what I think might work.

UK follows the Norway model. This allows UK to deal with non EU Countries direct which is one of the leave arguments. Norway pays less to EU per person than UK. So there could be a Brexit dividend as it is called to keep leave supporters happy. Also as being in the EEA might gain support from the remain supporters as UK not out of EU entirely.

NI is given the special economic status to reflect the unique circumstances of NI and the GFA which both ROI and UK agreed before the Article 50 developed in 2009. Hopefully this would allow the invisible border to remain invisible. For this to happen Johnson has to ignore both DUP and ERG.

Scotland are given the go ahead for a further referendum to decide whether or not they wish to remain in the UK. Hopefully this would offset any complaints that NI has received special treatment.

After a period of say 5 years or more, UK government could present to the public what it has achieved in terms of trade deals and UK is able to leave the EEA, if so desired, as UK is able to support itself.

Likewise Scotland should by then have decided what they want for their future. Possible that NI and ROI have decided by then they wish to reunite.

At present both NI and Scotland are being told by UK (Westminster) that as a members of UK they are leaving the EU like it or not and their vote does not count. Such approach has understandably alienated both NI and Scotland as is likely seen as another example of "hey you small fry does as you are told"

Being a member of EEA might make it more easy for UK to rejoin the EU if the outcome of a General Election is that voters have changed their minds and wish to be part of EU.

A longer process than envisaged by Article 50 to complete everything in 2 years, but more likely to get support from all affected parties than what is happening at moment.

For this to happen Johnson has to ignore both DUP and ERG.

This is the crunch bit. Yes, I think Johnson will throw the DUP under the bus sooner or later. Throw the ERG under with them? No chance.

There is still a physical border between Norway and Sweden.

Anyway it's all theoretical now. The ERG already said they wouldn't vote for the WA even if the backstop was removed, and shutting down parliament is the best way to ensure no deal.

Thank you for this thread @Apolloanddaphne - I've learned a lot. And thank you to the posters who have provided the information in a simple and clear way without judgement.