Can someone explain the Irish backstop to me in very simple words?

[Apolloanddaphne]

I am an intelligent woman with multiple degrees but i have to confess i have no idea what the back stop is. I am too scared to ask my DH or my friends lest they think i am an imbecile (lighthearted). I have tried googling it to read articles about it but i just don't get it.

One of my friends is Irish and has a piece in a newspaper today related this today. If it comes up in conversation next time i see him i would at least like to be able to say something semi intelligent about it!

Help me please. Use easy words. Thanks.

Good point I suppose Mindy.

I don't have to cross the border, the border/lack of it doesn't enter my consciousness to be honest.

Is there any way they can buffer NI to prevent the destruction of the economy?

What's the latest from the EU following G7? Tusk seems at loggerheads with Trump from the brief coverage I've read - only read headlines didn't actually read any articles.

at loggerheads with Boris (Freudian slip), not Trump!

'I don't have to cross the border, the border/lack of it doesn't enter my consciousness to be honest'. I think that sums it up. Most people involved in Brexit would or could say something very similar. And that is why we are in this conundrum....

'I don't have to cross the border, the border/lack of it doesn't enter my consciousness to be honest'. I think that sums it up. Most people involved in Brexit would or could say something very similar. And that is why we are in this conundrum....

🤦🏻‍♀️

Dont people realise that Ireland isn’t part of the UK? Northern Ireland is but it’s not part of Ireland - it’s part of the UK.

@Iggly, no - I think because I'm Irish, people expect me to care as much about NI as the people of NI do. We're not even part of the UK. And the rUK don't give a shit about NI. But the Irish are expected to. And it's actually Ireland who is getting the blame for this shit - not NI or Westminster!

I think Varadkar is going above and beyond to protect the GFA. I think TM for all her faults tried too. Then you get blustering bull-dozer Boris and we're all screwed!

Technically, we're just another EU member state - one of the EU27, but because of our land border with the UK, we're dragged into this sorry saga too!

I linked earlier in this thread to an interview Varadkar gave in NI. I'll link again if I can find it.

Mindy's post of 14:06 correctly predicts the outcome of a hard border I think. Economic hardship -> unemployment -> financial hardship for many individuals + loss of face/pride amongst men at losing their jobs -> bitterness and resentment looking for a target -> relapse to aiming at traditional targets: "the other side".
I am unionist by upbringing and inclination and don't really want a border in the Irish Sea...(what I'd really like is revoke A50 and UK remain in EU..ain't gonna happen though) but I'd rather a sea border than a hard border. No more Stephen Restoricks please.

Happily, as a PP has suggested, Boris will likely throw the DUP under a bus as soon as it suits to do so. They are just useful idiots for the powers that be at Westminster and will be disposed of when necessary.

Is there any way to dump the backstop but buffer NI from economic ruin and a resultant return to the bad old days of terrorism? I don't think the DUP actually give a stuff- some of them* would rather the country was run into the ground and then blown to kingdom come than move any further from GB and closer to the south- but the rest of us do.

I understand that the power can be devolved to the Northern Ireland Assembly to set their own rate of corporation tax (subject to their ability to show that they can balance the books- don't hold your breath) which might help, but the folks on the hill need to get back up the hill and into the building, toot sweet.

*also pinning my hopes on the fact that a good few of the DUP high heid yins are arch pragmatists and more keen on feathering their own nests than moral principles. If something will benefit them financially as individuals and they can sell it to the party faithful (they're good at this) then they will do it. Basically they'll agree to a fudge, and sell fudge to their voters, as long as they can take lots of lovely bites of delicious fudge for themselves.

@powershowerforanhour , that is actually one of the most optimistic and pragmatic posts I have read for a long time.

So, how about getting those people on opposing sides, to sit down and agree an addendum to the GFA.

It would probably need to be put to a referendum. Good luck with that!

I absolutely love the user name @powershowerforanhour ! I can hear my friend from NI and her lovely accent saying it right now!. Better still is the word "situation". I love the way it is pronounced.

And of course there is the Poke, yes that's right, it is an ice cream cone!

Such lovely people. All anyone wants is peace and a decent standard of living. ( I am realistic enough to know that there are idiots on both sides though, just needing something to kick it all off again).

The elected politicians have largely melded into the background in NI. Well they have no Assembly for starters. So what power do they have apart from DUP in WM, hanging on by a thread AFAIS. Being kind here, they put their ideology far above the day to day lives of the people of NI, and that is just so disappointing.

And I agree with the premise that DUP are nest featherers. How is the Cash for Ash enquiry going BTW?

The ironic thing is the DUP is so staunchly against an NI backstop for fear it would lead to a United Ireland. They believe that people in ROI would do anything to unite with the North but I honestly don't think that's true. The further South you go the less interest people have with an United Ireland. Most are happy with what the gfa brought to the island. I think most people (except for few extremist on both sides) were happy with the status quo before Brexit. It is actually people in the UK( England in particular) who keep going on about giving NI back to Ireland, as a way to solve the border issue.Also calling DUP/unionist Irish is only angering them more. I think a no deal brexit and a hard border leading to violence and a severe economic down turn could lead to a UI vote quicker then the backstop. But whether people in the ROI would actually vote to unite is hard to call, it's hard to think of uniting when a certain die hard percentage can't stand you and what you represent. It would also depend on what 'compromises would be expected and the economic costs.
I'm horrified at the thoughts of violence returning to NI/ Ireland, I hate seeing the anti vibe that seems to be out there now. It really feels like it's become a game, where one side hopes the other fails dismally and suffer terribly. Brexit will impact all of us to some extent, some more then others.

@Voila212

I wish there was a "thanks button" on this site. (and a quote button too).

Good post, you are spot on. ROI is not ready right now either on a social, economic or political level to agree to a UI.(There has to be a referendum with a majority on both sides anyway). There is too much water under the bridge now. Not least of which is the intransigence of both sides of the divide.

The costs to ROI would be immense in taking on a redundant Civil Service (that serves UK, but would no longer under UI), and filling the gap of a humungous financial support to NI by the UK as a whole via taxation and Westminster etc.

And as you have said, No One in ROI is fooled by the UK stance either. No way would ROI bail them out now. It is beyond parody.

Mostly they (ROI) shudder at having to take that polarisation on. It has largely been masked by the GFA, but all it takes is a blip, and off we go again.

Nope. Uk decided to leave, it is their problem to solve now.

I have family in ROI (border area,) and the young members would vote for a UI but the middle aged members would not for all the reasons articulated. Not sure how representative they are.

I thought polls suggest overall a UI vote would carry?

I know. Being from ROI, I know that nobody I know would want a united Ireland now. It's a dream from 100 years ago - not relevant now. Like it or not, NI belongs to the UK now and it will do for the foreseeable. The two parts of the country couldn't be so diametrically opposed. Yes we're sympathetic to those in NI who wish to identify as Irish - it's a nice idea. But they're not Irish.

Ireland has been largely unaffected by the Troubles. Some bombs by loyalists in Dublin, but nothing ongoing really. Therefore we have an entirely different history to NI. On the one hand you had Ireland come out of the shackles of British rule only to be ruled by the church. On the other hand you've a war zone effectively. Ireland has finally found its feet and its voice and is maturing as a country and nation and NI is completely at sea not knowing who or what to cling to. The cultures are so different, it's like East and West.

I thought polls suggest overall a UI vote would carry?

If you click on the link to Varadkar - it would suggest not.....

Once the DUP is consigned to history a different complexion will emerge.

How that might happen, I have no idea but it is the solution to the backstop which would mean border could be in the Irish Sea and regulatory alignment North/South.

No one would blink. Life would go on, no border issues and EU alignment. I honestly cannot see the problem here.

Other parts of UK might not like that much though. I dunno.

Hi powershower

Also pinning my hopes on the fact that a good few of the DUP high heid yins are arch pragmatists and more keen on feathering their own nests than moral principles. If something will benefit them financially as individuals and they can sell it to the party faithful (they're good at this) then they will do it. Basically they'll agree to a fudge, and sell fudge to their voters, as long as they can take lots of lovely bites of delicious fudge for themselves

This has been the hardest thing for me to understand - I always thought it was all about the money, so I've been trying to figure out how it's financially better for the DUP to have a hard border and no deal. I know they've been selling themselves as the party of business. Who got rich on the back of the Troubles? I know RUC officers used to do well on the overtime back in the day. (Well deserved for that job, I wouldn't have done it for love nor money.) Or is it some kind of nostalgia for back in the day when broadly speaking a person from a Unionist background had better prospects?

Bowsy5 But they're not Irish. They are in every way Irish.

I have a NI friend from a strong unionist background and he said he would vote for a UI as he sees ROI as way more progressive and outward looking. He thinks he might be the only one in his family though. He also said his whole family have applied for Irish passports which is something they never would have contemplated before. Strange times indeed.

My family would have described things exactly as you have in that nobody they know would vote for a UI. Could have knocked them down with a feather when the younger members said they would.

Culturally they are not Irish. They're Northern Irish.

In the same way an Irish person who grew up in New York and was born and raised in New York is American, Northern Irish people are not the same as Irish. It's hard to explain.
We entertain the Americans and half of England claiming to be Irish, but they're not Irish. They didn't grow up with a shared history. They had a different rearing for want of a better word. They're Irish maybe, but they're different to us in their psyche.

@Bowsy5

to whom are your referring?

The lack of a quote function here is mad. But anyway, what can you do, it is like Brexit!

www.google.com/amp/s/www.politico.eu/article/election-two-thirds-of-irish-would-vote-for-united-ireland/amp/.

Not sure how much faith I have in opinion polls....