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Brexit
Original poster

Boris and the Backstop

53 replies

VenusOfWillendorf · 21/08/2019 12:49

Why is there not more outrage in the UK over Boris and his governments demand to throw out the Backstop?

I find it absolutely sickening that he is so determined to be free to walk away from the international peace treaty the UK signed to PROTECT ITS OWN PEOPLE. And he is fully prepared to risk the British economy and stability for years to come in order to be allowed to do this.

If it was so easy to come up with "Alternative Arrangements", then why has nobody in the past three years been able to come up with something that actually exists and is credible?
It's not easy. It will take years to sort out - which is why the backstop is so vital.

I see him again today on BBC talking about how the EU needs 'see reason' when what he wants is so beyond reason, it beggers belief. He is so arrogant he actually seems to think this is possible. I find the whole attitude repulsive.

OP posts:
Mileysmiley · 22/08/2019 06:28

I am getting more and more worried the closer we get to Brexit. I voted to stay and I still think we shouldn't leave but it is too late now so Boris has to deliver or we will be in dire straits imho.

lonelyplanetmum · 22/08/2019 06:33

Listening to Peter Bone this morning on Sky News, even if the EU were to remove the Backstop not going to happen anyway* ,he was still saying that he (and by extension the ERG) still wouldn't vote for the WA as there was so much else in it that he/they didn't like*

Yes -This is what bothers me. The govts intense focus is on getting the EU to betray Ireland and expose It to our future woolly whim. But what evidence do we have that even if Ireland and the EU agreed to ' an agreement to agree' on the future border arrangements that the or a WA would then pass parliament?

I can't remember the most popular option? Didn't all Indicative votes fail to find a majority anyway ? Confused.

EngTech · 22/08/2019 06:36

Being devils advocate on this one

Why has Germany said you have 30 days to come up with an acceptable solution when for the past 3 years with TM, they would not budge or give an inch?

When the GE comes, which IMHO, it will when Parliament resits, people who wish to remain in the EU can vote for a party that campaigned on staying in the EU.

Democracy at work 👍

bellinisurge · 22/08/2019 06:38

@EngTech , they did budge. They accommodated the ridiculous redlines by allowing us to come up with the all UK backstop.

EngTech · 22/08/2019 06:41

Bell

Noted but it still did not get through Parliament though

We live in interesting times as the Chinese would say

lonelyplanetmum · 22/08/2019 06:42

they would not budge or give an inch?

Give an inch of which aspect.. by letting us be part of the customs union and single market but without following the agreed rules that all other member states follow?

EngTech · 22/08/2019 06:45

I can’t see us leaving as the GE will bring in a Government which will stay in the EU

bellinisurge · 22/08/2019 06:46

@EngTech , the suggestion of an NI only backstop /Border in the sea has never been put to Parliament. That, in my view, would get a parliamentary majority. Screw ERG and DUP votes, enough opposition MPs who want Brexit would go for that to get an orderly Brexit and this was always the EU preferred option.

MysteryTripAgain · 22/08/2019 06:49

Why has Germany said you have 30 days to come up with an acceptable solution when for the past 3 years with TM, they would not budge or give an inch?

Because deadline is approaching and Johnson has said UK leaves the EU on 31 Oct 2019 Noel Edmonds style, deal or no deal.

Key phrase is "workable solution". Nothing committed to in terms of production of solution and implementation within 30 days.

Sounds more like Germany wants to know for certain within the next 30 days whether or not UK is leaving with no deal so they can prepare accordingly.

EngTech · 22/08/2019 06:50

Bell

Noted but I can’t change what will, will not happen come October 31st so will not worry about what I have no control over.

Come the GE though, I will have a say on the next Government 👍👍

bellinisurge · 22/08/2019 06:55

@EngTech , write to your MP. Parliament reconvenes shortly. Even if they ignore you you will have tried.

Songsofexperience · 22/08/2019 07:00

I voted to stay and I still think we shouldn't leave but it is too late now so Boris has to deliver or we will be in dire straits imho.

Unfortunately we - and our democracy- will be in even worse straights if he does deliver.
Do you think such a huge shock as no deal will go down well with a prosperous population such as Britain's? Yes, not everyone is well off but the floor will sink much much lower than now and I'm afraid that if we end up where developing countries are now it could be truly shocking. I don't think we're ready for it. Once we realise what this means, what do you think will happen to our democracy? Do you think the masterminds of brexit will go gently on us? They've invested too much into that radical change to let it go and we'll join the ranks of 'democracies' like Russia and Turkey. We'll also do it 'willingly' because when faced with chaos people gravitate towards strong men.
That is not Britain, but it can be if we let no deal happen.

Mileysmiley · 22/08/2019 07:29

@Songsofexperience

My husband and I run a small business and we need to get over to europe to visit customers etc ... I'm dreading it tbh. We might go and live in France if it all goes tits up.

HarveySchlumpfenburger · 22/08/2019 07:36

Why has Germany said you have 30 days to come up with an acceptable solution when for the past 3 years with TM, they would not budge or give an inch?

It’s not so much they’ve budged as Merkel’s playing Boris at his own game. There are probably two workable solutions. Neither are particularly palatable to certain groups of MPs. I’m not sure boris would go for either of them so no he’s got 30days to stop posturing and come up with a non-existent workable solution.

Whether he’s got another card up his sleeve to play remains to be seen.

BeardedMum · 22/08/2019 07:37

The Daily Mail is reporting Boris Johnson’s performance as a triumph today.

Emilyontmoor · 22/08/2019 07:44

Engtech It’s “May you live in interesting times” and it is a curse, it certainly feels like we are cursed. And it isn’t a Chinese saying, it’s another example of Victorian orientalism... but then I am sure that is the spirit of racial superiority that Bojo wants to evoke....

Mistigri · 22/08/2019 07:47

The Daily Mail is reporting Boris Johnson’s performance as a triumph today.

Do you remember when they loved Theresa May? Honeymoon's gonna be shorter this time.

bellinisurge · 22/08/2019 07:52

The Faily Fail is just doing Johnson's job for him and bringing Brexit Party voters back to him.
And then when he pulls some compromise solution like a border in the sea, they will either say that's what we wanted all along or turn on him.

MysteryTripAgain · 22/08/2019 07:52

My husband and I run a small business and we need to get over to europe to visit customers etc ... I'm dreading it tbh. We might go and live in France if it all goes tits up

Some Countries give relaxation on for senior persons within companies who need to travel on the logic that preventing such persons from travelling may impede their business.

Suggest you look at the websites for the Countries you need to visit and see if they allow Business Visas that allow you to stay for a certain number of days, typically 30 days from day of arrival from what I have seen during travels.

Good luck

Songsofexperience · 22/08/2019 07:53

@mileysmiley

Yes the uncertainty is stressful... I don't run my own business but I too need to travel to Europe regularly. No idea how badly my job will be affected. I hope you won't have to emigrate because of the great brexit highjack...

prettybird · 22/08/2019 08:13

Why has Germany said you have 30 days to come up with an acceptable solution when for the past 3 years with TM, they would not budge or give an inch?

Because Merkel didn't say that Confused - it's how the UK press is reporting what she said Hmm

I don't speak German but did watch the press conference. According up the simultaneous translator, she was saying, " IF you can do it [find a solution] in 30 days or 2 years.....then yes, we can get an agreement"

Can't remember the exact words, but IF was definitely in there. And she was definitely referring to him finding a solution. And she also said that the Backstop was there for a reason.

Harabek · 22/08/2019 08:18

May I remind you, that PARLIAMENT rejected the Backstop 3 times by rejecting the May/Juncker EU treaty.

It won't get through Parliament.

Why should he push a the Backstop when his own Parliament has so soundingly rejected it??

bellinisurge · 22/08/2019 08:23

Tbe WA that Parliament rejected was the one that had an all-UK aspect to "creep up" on an NI backstop. Just make it an NI backstop without all the all-UK stuff in it; that's a different prospect. If we are going to fuck off the DUP, do it without tbe all-UK thing. Make NI a special economic area and DUP get to reap the benefit of peace and prosperity in NI. The twats can even do their silly marching.

MysteryTripAgain · 22/08/2019 08:31

The twats can even do their silly marching

Hahaha. Maybe DUP means

D on't
U nderstand
P arades

SayOohLaLa · 22/08/2019 08:42

They can't get rid of the backstop and he sure as hell won't come up with an alternative for Merkel in 30 days as the US would veto a trade deal because of the threat to the Good Friday agreement, and leavers are keen to point out how easily we'll get a beneficial US trade deal. Sigh.