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Brexit

Westminstenders: The Imperial March

933 replies

RedToothBrush · 28/07/2019 14:33

There are many ways to enforce power indirectly using privilege. Jacob Rees Mogg knows every trick in the book and dresses it up as respectability rather than a subtle form or intimidation and deliberate exclusion.

It's not the stuff 'of the people'.

Meanwhile the newly crowned PM, is making rather a bug deal of how he is the man 'of the people', here to serve them and to deliver their will.

There's a big theme here about presenting as 'of the people' whilst simultaneously serving the interests of the elite and reestablishing its power over the people.

It's a theme that is set to run for some time, and is entrenched in Trumpism too.

This shift in power is particularly harmful to women it must be noted.

'Strong and stable' was 'weak and wobbly' and we should be mindful that in the era of reversed spin, what 'of the people' signifies.

We've long known about the authoritarianism at the heart of leaving thinking. It's only now that it's finally going to start stomping it's feet all over our freedoms and power.

The road back will be a long and hard one because we failed to spot the threat and the dangers of it.

OP posts:
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GeistohneGrenzen · 28/07/2019 22:56

wheresmymojo I can only access a blank page! Tried doing it via email to self and had this come up - is it genuine?

Tomorrow's Papers Today - see the next day's newspaper front pages

Tomorrow's Papers Today - see the next day's newspaper front pages

@suttonnick and @hendopolis tweeting the next day's front and back pages since 2011

Off to bed now anyway, so g'night Smile

BigChocFrenzy · 28/07/2019 22:58

The EU and USA currently have trade sanctions against Russia because of its 2014 invasion of Ukraine

The US and UK heavily lobbied for the EU sanctions, which have hurt some EU farmers & others

The sanctions also caused Russia to massively increase its sponsorship of the far right parties in the EU
and it's hacking attacks, e.g. on the German Parliament and it's attempts during the French & German elections

The EU don't want to be facing both a hostile US and a hostile Russia
However, Trump wants to dismantle the EU, whereas Putin seems to just want the EU to stop being hostile

After Brexit, the Uk influence on EU policy will plummet - and it will no longer have a vote or a veto

That, together with Trump's increasing verbal and trade attacks on the EU,
mean it is likely the EU will try to negotiate friendlier relations with Russia and drop the sanctions

Peregrina · 28/07/2019 23:05

That, together with Trump's increasing verbal and trade attacks on the EU, mean it is likely the EU will try to negotiate friendlier relations with Russia and drop the sanctions.

So we will well and truly have shot ourselves in the foot, because cosying up to the US will definitely be a one way relationship. We will be like the annoying kid brother tagging along behind, desperately wanting to play with the big boys, who want nothing to do with us, except if it suits them.

Well done Leavers!

tobee · 28/07/2019 23:20

Yes, I'm on levothyroxine @CrunchyCarrot. My annual bloods say I have adequate levels and if feel ok in myself these days. However, I am aware of the controversies around thyroid replacement and keep in mind I might have to push for things if my levels and symptoms change.

I just take whatever the meds I'm given by the pharmacist, random different packets 🤷🏻‍♀️! Every now and then I self monitor how I'm feeling.

For everyone needing medication, even if good substations can be found, people are already suffering stress from the uncertainty of supply.

It's so ridiculous. What a wasteful, stupid act of self harm as has been noted many times.

BigChocFrenzy · 28/07/2019 23:49

I'm so sorry for all the Westministenders worried about their meds Thanks

I hope that at least that part of the govt emergency planning works properly

tobee · 29/07/2019 00:08

Obviously not substations but substitutions Confused

Songsofexperience · 29/07/2019 00:39

www.independent.co.uk/news/uk/politics/ruth-davidson-boris-johnson-brexit-no-deal-war-cabinet-michael-gove-a9024191.html

If she follows through with this, BJ's majority is now gone, isn't it?

BestIsWest · 29/07/2019 05:54

No, because she’s not an MP but a member of the Scottish Parliament.

frumpety · 29/07/2019 06:46

In that case, he would call & win a VoNc regardless of whether BJ has decided to Revoke / Extend / No Deal

So its all about the numbers?
I am just curious as to what might happen politically if Boris revokes before a VONC occurs ?

I am not saying Boris will revoke , I think that is probably plan Z , although I am not sure if there is much content in plans A to Y. Still might be worth sticking a cheeky £5 bet on it Grin

lonelyplanetmum · 29/07/2019 06:52

Brainwashing.

Just a little warning that Propaganda leaflets and tv ads are coming our way.

It’s all getting rather like the Ministry of Truth in Oceania. (Orwell’s 1984-Wasn’t that all symbolic of the Soviet Ministry of Propaganda in Spain in 1936 -1937?)

There’s also some money for Scotland - which is a good thing although it isn't like a bribe to the DUP as it won't be contingent on supportive votes presumably?

Instead of NHS spending the original bus could have said “ ...let’s spend £400 million on Brexit propaganda and sweeteners to Scotland instead”

Articles confirming this expenditure in the HuffPost and the Telegraph.

“Johnson is planning to spend £100 million on a no-deal Brexit information ‘blitz’ as the government is now working on the “assumption” the country will leave the bloc without an agreement....
The Telegraph reported the information push will include leaflets sent to 27 million households and TV ads ahead of the October 31 departure date in what is touted as the biggest public information campaign since the end of the Second World War.”

“Meanwhile, Johnson has called for a renewal of “the ties that bind our United Kingdom” as he travels to Scotland to announce a £300 million funding pot for communities in the devolved nations.”

HuffPost~Brexit~spending

Peregrina · 29/07/2019 06:53

I think the ERG will give Johnson much more latitude that they did May, simply because he's an old Etonian, although having said that, so was Cameron and they didn't give him any support.

They have now become a cult.

lonelyplanetmum · 29/07/2019 06:55

Also if we end up with an imminent election- isn't it wrong that the govt spend taxpayers' money on advance propaganda leaflets and tv ads?

lonelyplanetmum · 29/07/2019 07:02

Oh also in my tally of this week's expenditure .. I forgot it's..

100 million - marketing, tv, pr companies.
300 million- Scotland sweeteners
1 billion - extra government department funding.

Sajid Javid as chancellor announced a further £1bn spending package to be made available to government departments.Not sure if this includes the 400 million?

Any accountants or journalists out there kept an accurate tally of the last three years' Brexit expenditure?

Oakenbeach · 29/07/2019 07:04

I am just curious as to what might happen politically if Boris revokes before a VONC occurs ?

If BJ revoked, after promising to leave on 31 October come what may, he would have completely lose all political credibility. The Tory Party would be incandescent, and it’s hard to see who would support him.. Leavers certainly wouldn’t and Remainers wouldn’t be able to trust him as his unpredictability would know no bounds. He would be forced from office very quickly.

Peregrina · 29/07/2019 07:12

Also if we end up with an imminent election- isn't it wrong that the govt spend taxpayers' money on advance propaganda leaflets and tv ads?

The Leavers thought so with Cameron's leaflet to the public prior to the Referendum, but they have different standards when it comes to Leave wasting money. I would only hope that when it all goes tits up, even to the extent of the UK breaking up, the Leave camp well and truly get the blame.

Except of course, they won't accept the blame. It will be the same as how no-one voted for Thatcher, even though she was in office for 11 years or how post WW2 in occupied Europe everyone had been in the various anti-Nazi resistance groups even though collaboration abounded.

wheresmymojo · 29/07/2019 07:16

@GeistohneGrenzen

Yep - that's the genuine page!

jasjas1973 · 29/07/2019 07:39

The USA ask that NATO get involved in it’s curent or recent operations to provide additional legitimacy, that’s all. If you seriously think that there is anything the US military has done within the last 30 years with partners that it could not militarily have achieved alone (at the potential cost of a few more taxpayer $Billions and a few more American lives ) then you are delusional

What operations has NATO got involved in with the USA? i can think of only Yugoslavia and then air attack only. Euro troops were on the ground.
The extremely damaging wars (to Europe as well as the countries peoples) in Iraq and Afghanistan had nothing to do with NATO, the bombing of Syria and the jumbled policy on that country again was zero to do with Nato.

You'd need to ask the Tories why we ve gone from 31 frigates to 19, similar reductions in troop and aircraft strengths... perhaps Boris can pledge to rebuild our military too? he seems to have discovered a new golden goose.

frumpety · 29/07/2019 07:43

Oaken it is because Boris has no real political credibility that I think he is the only person who could potentially get away with revoking. Would the Tory party be incandescent ? some of its members would be, but are you absolutely sure about all of them ? Remainers don't trust Boris now, Leavers might, I'm not sure ?

As I said I don't think Boris will revoke, I am just playing the various scenarios through my mind and wondering at the various potential outcomes. We do live in interesting times, so I might still make that bet. Smile

wheresmymojo · 29/07/2019 07:44

Honestly I think BoJo is playing a rather good hand at the moment.

I suspect it's coming more from his advisors rather than his own work but, putting to one side that I don't want Brexit, he's doing all the right things.

Basically many promises of sweeteners for the public now which can't be argued against by opposition.

Who could argue against 20k police, topping up education spending, increasing public sector salaries after years of real world reductions*, doing a tour of the Union, etc?

These are measures that would have support across all sectors of the public irrespective of party affiliation. If we go into a GE due to a VoNC they will be real support winners and of course they're just promises, if we don't have the money to do them after a no deal Brexit they'll be dropped

He's basically on a campaign footing now ahead of any official campaign which means any spending and testing of various social media messages aren't under scrutiny of the relevant oversight body.

I have to hand it to him Dominic Cummings that they're doing pretty good politicking right now.

While I hate everything Dominic Cummings stands for I do think he's a very, very sharp mover. Which makes him very, very dangerous.

I've made a point to read through his blog from start to finish as Boris isn't an idealogue. He really only cares about being in power. So the question for me is what strain of policies we'll see after Brexit from him, and I think this will be more about the puppet masters.

As an aside - the fact that Dominic Cummings is on board makes me think Brexit is a done deal now. If there's a way of getting out, including no deal, he will find it. I know Parliament will attempt to block it by somehow forcing BoJo's hand but if there's a way around this it will be found and exploited.

With his daily no deal briefings and comms strategy any fall out from 'no deal' can be blamed on the EU or the previous 'remainer Govt' possibly including the sacrificial slaughtering of Gove

*The general public will only see/remember the headline and overlook that this has to be funded from existing, very stretched budgets thereby taking more money away from services

wheresmymojo · 29/07/2019 07:44

Sorry - accidental bold font. The last paragraph was meant to be a footnote about 'increased public services salaries'

Iambuffy · 29/07/2019 07:52

BJ thinks this is his churchill moment .

It's really that simple.

No idea what DC's game plan is. Suzpecf he doesn't really, either.

Songsofexperience · 29/07/2019 07:52

So everyone thinks it's no deal and that's it then?...

Iambuffy · 29/07/2019 07:54

Unless the "opposition" oppose it and provide a real alternative or a remainer cohort of tory MPs table a Vonc against their own party, yes.

Neither is very likely imo.

NoWordForFluffy · 29/07/2019 08:00

I can see this getting to the brink before any action happens. There's John Major's plan to consider yet, and I don't doubt that he will try to do something. I'm not sure how a Court will view it though. It's a hearing I'd love to go to as a knowledge development thing though.

wheresmymojo · 29/07/2019 08:02

What are the mechanics of a VoNC....they're now in recess so I presume it can't be tabled until they're back?

If so, and the Govt lose, how long do they have to hold a GE?

Could BoJo et al actually use a VoNC to take the UK out with no deal while Parliament is suspended/dissolved for a GE?

I'm sure they've worked through this scenario themselves and how they might game it to still achieve no deal.