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Brexit

Westminstenders: Long live liberalism

976 replies

RedToothBrush · 30/06/2019 11:54

Talk of its demise are premature.

(Sorry up to eyeballs this weekend)

OP posts:
Thread gallery
37
Peregrina · 05/07/2019 17:51

I missed this result from last night.

As Mark Pack of the Lib Dems says :
A big win for the Liberal Democrats in Wiltshire, a county right at the heart of those mostly overlooked 3.5 million Conservative Remain voters who the Tories seem determined to drive away from their party.

Britain Elects
@britainelects
Trowbridge Drynham (Wiltshire) result:

LDEM: 41.6% (+28.4)
CON: 30.5% (-35.8)
IND: 23.7% (+23.7)
LAB: 4.2% (-16.3)

Liberal Democrat GAIN from Conservative.

This, I would say is very much a pig with a blue rosette would win territory, or it was!

DGRossetti · 05/07/2019 17:59

The tectonic plates of English - and British politics are shifting, and the Tories and Labour haven't the first clue how to deal with it. If you are a fan of irony, there is a political equivalent of climate change, and it's being viewed with pretty much the same lack of enthusiasm as real climate change.

There are probably 2 two types of Tories right now. Those that have twigged, and are shitting themselves, and those that have not, and are determined to continued Melchett-style with the same tactics as last time.

BigChocFrenzy · 05/07/2019 18:02

Having copied proms and baby showers from the USA, it seems we now have the abomination FLOTUK (First Lady of the UK ) 🤮

Hello, that'll be HM QEII,
until we change the UK Constitution and even then I hope we never get landed with First Lady / Gentleman / Other

I keep reading, e.g.

Sam Coates Sky@SamCoatesSky

So a LOT about “FLOTUK” - Carrie Symonds - today

Songsofexperience · 05/07/2019 18:09

FLOTUK....
Ewww

ThereWillBeAdequateFood · 05/07/2019 18:09

I would say is very much a pig with a blue rosette would win territory, or it was

-35% for the Tory’s ShockGrin

And -16% for Labour.

Everything’s changing

DGRossetti · 05/07/2019 18:14

I think the real story in that election result is the massive upsurge in "IND".

I'll happily research further for anyone who wants to pay me, but I'm going with a working theory that Social Media hasn't caused this (so all the regulatory focus on Facebook etc isn't going to achieve the genie-back-in-the-bottle those old-guard moustache Petes hope it will). However they have enabled it by allowing people a different route to influence power. As one "N. Farage" has found out.

So in future, a lot of votes are going to be diverted away from the monolithic Tory/Labour hegemony. With interesting results.

1tisILeClerc · 05/07/2019 18:21

Just before the UK disappears completely, can someone dispatch a carrier cockroach* with the news written on it's back please?

  • Reputedly immune to radiation and you will probably have eaten the pidgeons.
tobee · 05/07/2019 18:26

Presumably if the members of a party elect someone that doesn't appeal to many of the wider electorate then they would, in theory, become marginalised, fringe parties. But, in reality, they don't. Because FPTP and many people reflexively voting Conservative/Labour/LibDem/SNP etc at general election time.

That FLOTUK is fucking ghastly as a concept!

mathanxiety · 05/07/2019 18:30

Eh, proms are knows as 'debs' (short for debutantes' balls) in Ireland and they have been a fixture of the late summer and early autumn after the end of secondary school for probably the last hundred years. They used to be only for hoity toity private schools but now almost every school holds one. Whole towns come out to see off the lads and lassies for their big night. Serious newspapers devote entire editions of their style sections every year to current trends.
www.laoistoday.ie/2018/07/29/in-pictures-serious-style-at-the-knockbeg-college-debs/

Mine was way back in 1982. Back then all the girls wore white dresses. I have burned the photos

mathanxiety · 05/07/2019 18:37

thehill.com/homenews/house/451693-ocasio-cortez-says-justin-amash-right-in-writing-op-ed-warning-of-partisan-death
Justin Amash, libertarian GOP critic of Trump, is now an independent Member of Congress, offering a similar criticism of the two party system that you are hinting at tobee.

In the op-ed, Amash wrote that “we are fast approaching the point ... where Congress exists as little more than a formality to legitimize outcomes dictated by the president, the speaker of the House and the Senate majority leader."

mathanxiety · 05/07/2019 18:41
  • I do not mean to imply that Laois Today is a serious newspaper Smile
Oakenbeach · 05/07/2019 20:46

The LibDems could also end up with the same problem having thrown open their Leadership election to the members. However, I don't think we are likely to be providing a PM or Leader of the Opposition in the near future.

I wouldn’t be so sure! Given the current dysfunctionality of Labour, I think Labour will have an utterly wretched GE if there’s one this autumn..... and i genuinely expect the LDs to do better than them, not just in votes but seats too (their momentum will grow as Labour unravels) and either be in Government (though not a majority one) or official opposition.

Brexit has broken old electoral ‘certainties’, and Labour is in an existential crisis the likes of which it hasn’t faced since Ramsey McDonald.

If we don’t get an election this autumn, and the Tories manage to take us out, deal or no deal, then I’d be far less sure of the LDs maintaining their appeal, at least at current levels, but who knows.

wherearemychickens · 05/07/2019 20:46

I'm loving the #OppressedByTheEU hashtag on Twitter. Feels like a good response to the twattishness of Widdecombe

1tisILeClerc · 05/07/2019 21:39

{DUP to demand NHS cash boost in Northern Ireland from next PM }
From SKY news.
Is the rest of the UK going to get extra funds for the NHS too?

BigChocFrenzy · 05/07/2019 22:02

(FT Paywall) director-general of the CBI: No-deal Brexit is a tripwire into economic chaos

https://www.ft.com/content/e41124f2-9d88-11e9-9c06-a4640c9feebb?

The incoming UK prime minister faces a gargantuan task.
Not since the second world war have times been as turbulent,
or the responsibility for national and economic security as serious.

At the heart of the challenge lies Brexit.
It is a political decision with far-reaching economic consequences,
and we in business have played a vital role in informing people and politicians about what might happen to jobs and living standards as a result.
.....
In Europe, where I spent much of last week, leaders are becoming resigned to this outcome.
.....
the message from business groups must be deafeningly clear, or we are not doing our job.

A no-deal Brexit is not a clean break.

It will not mean Brexit is over, for the UK or the EU.
It will not mean an end to uncertainty for business.

Quite the opposite. No deal is a tripwire into economic chaos that could harm our country, and the EU, for years to come. And let me set out why, using evidence we have today. These are not the much derided Project Fear predictions of 2016. This is Project Reality.

Business sees the impact of no deal in four stages, over many years.

The first is what we’re experiencing now

  • the negative impact of the threat of no deal.

Business investment fell for four consecutive quarters last year.
EY has confirmed the bill for no-deal planning among financial services companies alone has reached £4bn.
The CBI’s latest sector survey says confidence continues to drop.
This week’s data, from across the construction, manufacturing and services sectors, suggest the UK economy has, at best, been at a standstill in the second quarter.

The second stage is the physical business disruption from the exit itself.

As border checks are introduced, delays at ports will build as backlogs grow.
Automotive manufacturers can only stockpile for three weeks, adding 1,100 trucks a day during Black Friday and the run-up to Christmas.

Room to create buffer stocks is scarce.
The UK Warehousing Association stated “there is no space left”
and the supermarkets Sainsbury’s, Asda and Tesco have warned that an October no-deal exit is “as bad as it gets”.

The last three months of the year are when most fresh food is imported from southern Europe - it cannot be stored.

Meanwhile, services companies that haven’t planned ahead
will need to withdraw from providing certain sales and services by phone and email, and those that require travel to the EU.

The third stage, much underestimated, is a period of prolonged negotiation with the EU to repair trade damage.

No deal is not a viable resting place.
It leaves too many gaps and holes.

The UK will be forced back to the negotiating table whether we like it or not.

Having to find a solution to the Irish border, at the very least, makes this inevitable.

There are many areas where contingency plans are lacking, including the free flow of data, which supports the UK’s £117bn digital economy,
and the export rights for farmers of dairy, meat, eggs and honey.

Lorry licences have only been granted for nine months.

But the fourth stage is perhaps the most serious - the slow puncture of the UK’s lost competitiveness.

Unless and until a new trade deal is forged, the UK would face tariffs on 90 per cent of its EU goods exports, by value.

Our manufactured goods will become less competitive and businesses will be tied up in new red tape.

The EU will apply double testing in areas from children’s toys to high-viz jackets.

Services providers, from broadcasting to insurance and who account for 80 per cent of the UK economy,
will be forced to shift operations to Europe to maintain market access.

No deal is not a panacea, not a clean break and not an end to uncertainty.

And Mr Hunt’s and Mr Johnson’s prescriptions for shoring up the UK economy are short on reason, as the Institute for Fiscal Studies has said.

Businesses are not crying out for corporation tax cuts.
Nor are they clamouring for red tape to be reduced.

Yet we are sleepwalking into a no-deal Brexit on the back of these misconceptions.
< and because some uber-wealthy people wanted to make even more money, so they whipped up the batshit tendencies of the hard right >

Iambuffy · 05/07/2019 22:05

Last para:

Sleepwalking into no deal Brexit.

We've been saying that on this thread for at least the last year....

TatianaLarina · 05/07/2019 22:26

^LDEM: 41.6% (+28.4)
CON: 30.5% (-35.8)
IND: 23.7% (+23.7)
LAB: 4.2% (-16.3)^

Fuck that’s massive. Thanks Peregrina.

Iambuffy · 05/07/2019 22:33

Labour: 4.2%

Fuck that's disastrous

Peregrina · 05/07/2019 22:55

You never know what exactly an Independent represents; if they are really Independent or someone who fell out with their old party.

Where though is the Brexit party? Shouldn't they be laying the foundations and getting themselves known?

NoWordForFluffy · 05/07/2019 22:56

Too much effort, Peregrina.

BigChocFrenzy · 05/07/2019 23:20

afaik, the Faragists haven't started contesting local seats yet
They probably don't yet have the party infrastructure to do so.

They might choose to ignore local elections for a coiple of yearsl, just concentrate on organising for the next GE

NoWordForFluffy · 05/07/2019 23:24

Bearing in mind Peterborough, they're maybe scratching their heads as to how to actually win a parliamentary seat.

BigChocFrenzy · 05/07/2019 23:28

Torygraph reports the latest polling by ConHome has BJ on 677 %, Hunt 27%^

Exasperating, but they are stll writing about BJ needing support to "play No-Deal Chicken with the EU" 🤦🏻‍♀️
The Tory Brexiters won't drop this DD fantasy that the EU will cave in at 10:59 pm on Brexit Eve

The EU aren't playing and won't renegotiate
We'll be lucky if they would even give BJ an extension

https://www.telegraph.co.uk/politics/2019/07/05/boris-cannot-expect-beat-brussels-no-deal-chicken-without-facing/?

BigChocFrenzy · 05/07/2019 23:29

BJ on <a class="break-all" href="http://go.mumsnet.com/?xs=1&id=470X1554755&url=www.conservativehome.com/thetorydiary/2019/07/our-last-next-tory-leader-survey-before-ballot-papers-arrive-finds-johnson-on-67-per-cent-and-hunt-on-29-per-cent.html" target="blank">667 %, Hunt 27%
(Looks like a big win, but even Tory counting won't get him 67%)