Remainers and politics geeks- a question for you

[RemainRita]

This is really only a discussion for those like me who are passionate remainers, left leaning, and geekily following every twist and turn of this awful saga...

I am thinking through the possible scenarios here...

Obviously on face value Rory Stewart appears to be the least worst candidate in terms of ideology, however his voting record is not good and he is not on our side (left/lib). He only seems rational when compared with Boris/Gove etc. EU will prefer him out of all the candidates and he might be able to get a change to the NI border issue and get May's crappy deal through at some stage. So in essence, he might be able to deliver Brexit.

That said, I've been wondering.... it's clear that Boris would not be able to get Brexit through by 31st Oct anymore than anyone else would. He admitted as much last night in the debate. There is no way the EU would budge an inch with him. He would no doubt fuck it up and do a dreadful job generally, and in doing so once and for all fuck up his career and prove himself to be useless, and have to go. So we would finally be rid of him. In not delivering Brexit and pushing this back until 2020 it becomes more likely that we would have a GE/ referendum / revoke article 50. The mandate from the 2016 referendum gets weaker and weaker the more years go by and something would need to shift. So he would probably not be able to deliver Brexit.

So, Boris would be damaging for this country in terms of wider politics, looking after the most vulnerable, social mobility etc, however the same applies to any of the Tories right? So in a strange way, as we are not going to get a GE or referendum anytime soon, is it somehow better to get Boris's power trip over and done with, have him in, knowing that he will fail with Brexit and then we might actually get a GE / article 50 will be revoked??

I can't believe how fucked up this thinking is by the way, but I'm clutching at straws here!!!

[The80sweregreat]

i'M getting to the stage where i thinking ' let them send Boris over
to the EU' and see what he can come back with. None of this is ideal, they may not want to talk to him and it might all back fire, but at least it will put to bed the whole ' May was a remainer and we could do better' etc etc.
I think that it will be a game changer as ' no deal' will hang over everyone and will they then have the balls to walk away?
( i dont want any of this by the way, but its what it seems to be coming down to here) its all very worrying , but the Tories seem to want all this. once it goes to the Tory faithful, they may think differently. but i have a feeling they will vote for Boris and then cross their fingers.

[DumbledoresCrookedNose]

Not one person voted for no deal because it was never an option. Remember easiest deal in history, Norway style model, etc etc? So since not one person voted for no deal, they need to call the whole thing off if they can't agree a deal.
Of course, they won't. But they should.

[DGRossetti]

Boris could say he needs more time to sort out the mess May left

He'd have to explain how the UK didn't waste the current extension first though.

[sandyfoot]

"If Scotland has another vote for independence, then fundamentally the UK will change and IMO it would only be fair to first re-run the EU referendum in England, Wales and NI to see if people in the rest of the UK are willing to pay that price. (I suspect the Little Englanders would be)"

Scotland will only have the momentum for a 2nd ref once we're out on no deal in which case it will be too late for rest of UK to have 2nd brexit referendum on that basis. The problem is brexiteers don't seem to care that UK will be broken up, Brexit more important.

[noodlenosefraggle]

Yes I can't see us getting another extension just so we can piss about doing the same thing again. What would be the point? It will be on the proviso that we do something major like general election or second referendum as that's the only way to break the deadlock. Parliament as it is has demonstrated it will not vote for anything so a new Parliament or a new referendum is the only solution. Even those are bad ones, as it looks like we're completely split down the middle. I'd like us to revoke pending a new referendum in 5 years time when we've come up with a coherent plan to put forward as an option but that's our in the sky.

[noodlenosefraggle]

pie in the sky

[1tisILeClerc]

{ revoke pending a new referendum in 5 years time when we've come up with a coherent plan to put forward as an option but that's pie in the sky.}

Revoking is one thing but to think the EU will put up with this nonsense in as short as 5 years time is unlikely. It will take 5 years to undo the mess of the last three.