Scotland, Ireland, elsewhere?

[Zalie]

Just a hypothetical question I've been musing over, with regards to property ownership, pre Brexit and afterwards.

This isn’t a debate on the rights or wrongs of leaving vs remaining though, just a query as to what you would do if you were in the position to buy a second property elsewhere in the CTA before Brexit happens.

I've been pondering along the lines of ordinary people who might be able to stretch to extra mortgage payments or have been left a one-off sum of money from a deceased relative etc, rather than the options available to the wealthy who can simply buy a mansion in the Caribbean.

So, imagine you had the funds or the borrowing capacity for around £100k - £150k, enough to buy a small apartment or cottage somewhere before Brexit, without selling your current home or relocating permanently. But you could only buy in England, Wales, Scotland, Northern Ireland or Ireland. Where would you go?

Would you head to Scotland (based on possible future independence) or Ireland (remaining in the EU)? Would it be coastal, city or country? Is there anywhere you’d feel would give you a ‘bolthole’ if the situation is dire after Brexit, or somewhere you feel would have the more secure future? Or maybe you would opt to stay within England or Wales, but buy in an area that you feel might be least affected?

For me, there are many places I would love to live, and alas most of them fall outside the price range above. Clearly I have champagne taste but a beer budget! I do know I would choose coastal, on a sandy beach, as my first choice, maybe Lossiemouth or Dunbar in Scotland, or somewhere on the coast in Co. Cork. My second choice would be city based, purely for amenities, but in the smaller cities like Stirling.

But I'm the first to admit that I don’t fully grasp how the quest for Scottish independence might affect their economy, nor how the UK leaving the EU will impact upon Ireland, so I would love to hear what you more knowledgeable posters would do with your own imaginary funds, where you would go, and why.

Well good luck buying something in Ireland for 100k. You might get a shoebox in arse end of nowhere

Oh, okay, fair enough! What should the imaginary budget be to buy a 2 bed property, do you think? I was just trying to keep the numbers low, so that it wasn’t like buying a main residence, but I’ve never been to Ireland so have no idea.

Would you be allowed to bolt to Ireland?

I would be looking at a holiday flat in France or Spain. Somewhere easy to rent out and with reasonable transport links (e.g. train/boat) that are likely to remain working - planes will have problems with legalities and insurance after No-Deal. I think that Ireland and Scotland will be badly impacted by Brexit as they so intertwined with England, economically speaking. A larger neighbor may be a better bet.

FWIW, I think we are looking at a period of really painful shortages (including medicine - people could well die) caused by customs issues and then a slow decline. If we Brexit and don't come back within the decade, my kids will be looking for work outside of the country. I already do as I work remotely.

Since we have taken 3 years already and are not convinced at being either in or out unless there is a dramatic revoke on or before Oct 31st the chance of the UK then getting back in this generation is getting slim.
Even a 'crash out' will take 9 months or more to sort out the mess with the EU, a transition period would be much longer.
People will always be able to travel, but it may well become a bit more of a PITA.

I agree with PP about neither Ireland or Scotland being protected from the economic fallout of Brexit - but if I had to choose, it would be Ireland, because even if Scotland becomes independent (and that's a big if - the polling really hasn't shifted dramatically since the last one) it will takes years for Scotland to gain membership of the EU, and to do so will require extreme austerity to meet the conditions of membership. So if I had a spare £100k it would be Spain or Italy I'd go for, although I have no idea whether that would buy a 2 bed flat.

5 minutes on Rightmove would giver you a good idea of what is possible.
That amount in the UK or Ireland may be struggling though.

I’d never move to Scotland if they got independence and I’m Scottish. It will be a huge disaster

Just to clarify, I don’t actually have this money, I was just wondering if and where people would go if they had limited funds but wanted a potential escape (either temporarily or permanently). I assume wealthy people either already have a comfortable bolthole or are so financially cushioned that Brexit won’t impact them greatly.

So that’s where this came from, thinking about the rest of us, who don’t have a huge pot of funds to play with and have to put a lot of thought into our futures and that of our children post-Brexit?

I was curious if posters felt that anywhere in the CTA would be the ‘best’ option, either most financially secure or with the most potential. So far the replies seem to indicate that everywhere in the CTA is basically up sh!t creek post brexit, and only mainland europe could offer a safe haven. Assuming they would let us purchase property post-Brexit, that is.

Have a look at west cork on daft.ie - it’s where my family come from and I keep eyeing up houses there

Alonglongway so you’re actually considering moving to Ireland? Is that to rejoin family or as a result of Brexit? And you’re thinking of west in Co. Cork, or west in the city of Cork?

Conks - how do you expect Scottish independence to pan out then? What are your concerns?

Christ you wouldn't get a bedsit in Ireland for 150k. Sorry. Don't want to piss on your fantasy.

So, it would seem that the general view here is that England, Wales, Scotland, Northern Ireland and Ireland are all going to be really negatively affected by Brexit. And even if they weren’t, only the comparatively wealthy could afford to buy a bolthole there anyway.

So, regular people are stuck dealing with the consequences of Brexit with no option to escape, unless possibly they are able to go to mainland europe? The wealthy will continue to have options to cope with any negative impact, whether by second homes abroad or just having a significant financial safety cushion?

Well, that’s depressing, but sadly not surprising...

I guess I’m not the ideal test for your question. Both my parents are from West Cork and like many of their generation moved to London when I was small child. So lots of family there and always the possibility of moving over. My parents thought about it when they retired but decided to stay near the grandchildren. It’s the southwest part of county cork btw - not the city

Nowhere has escaped austerity. Ireland has high cost of living, a big housing crisis and long waiting lists for healthcare. But it seems more at peace with itself as a country than we are here in England at the moment.

I’m very against 2nd homes so wouldn’t do that but would consider decamping.

I'm glad I live in Scotland and have a chance - albeit at the moment a slight one, but growing all the time - of escaping the clusterfuck that England and Westminster is dragging the UK into

But for the record, I'd rather that Scotland achieved her independence by the slow road rather than by the faster road of a Brexit economic implosion.

West Cork is notoriously expensive, as is most of Ireland. You would need to be able to drive unless you live in city centre - public transport is very poor and only operates in towns and cities. To give you an idea of the housing crisis; there is a huge problem with homelessness. Rent is often more expensive than a mortgage payment but it's extremely difficult to get a mortgage since the last recession. Agree with PP 150k won't get you much anywhere decent. Ireland has a big problem with cuckoo nests and vulture funds buying FTBs out of the market and getting on the property ladder. It's where corporate businesses and pension companies buy big developments to let out and stop individuals buying a home. They also swoop on defaulted property auctions and buy defaulting debts.
I'd love a nice holiday apartment somewhere warm, near the beach and with a nice promenade.

@ElspethFlashman Christ you wouldn't get a bedsit in Ireland for 150k. Sorry.

Of course you would. Just not in the bigger cities. A quick search on daft with an upper limit of €175k (possibly slightly generous exchange rate)

daft

Actually, looking through that list, there are properties in the bigger cities too, even Dublin, although most are not in areas you'd really want to live in.

How is having a holiday home going to help? Your main home will probably be ransacked for food and meds while you're away.

@Zalie - But you could only buy in England, Wales, Scotland, Northern Ireland or Ireland. Where would you go?

Quick question - why is Ireland the only non-UK country in your list? Is this part of the arrogance of some British who seem to believe that Ireland is still a colony, or worse, don't realise Ireland is an independent country?

Apologies if that is not the case but we've listened to such appallingly ignorant crap from UK politicians in particular, but also from ordinary British people, wrt Ireland during the whole brexit saga.

Why are you including Ireland in your list along with British countries?

Why do you think buying a property in a European country as a non-EU citizen would be a good idea?

@Isthisafreename I listed Ireland because it’s the only EU country which is in the Common Travel Area, and an agreement has been signed between Ireland and the UK ensuring that will continue post-Brexit.

So after Brexit, Irish citizens will still retain the right to live and work in the UK, and UK citizens will retain the right to live and work in Ireland. Hence Ireland's inclusion on my list. I would have included other EU countries, but I don’t know of any which propose to offer the same?

i'd throw a curve ball into the mix and look at which place was going to do best if sea levels rise. Noone can predict what will happen with Brexit - so many variables, but all the climate change scientists seem quite certain on things. I haven't done research but my memory of Scotland is its quite hilly, with a fair bit of green energy production.

@Zalie - That makes sense. Apologies for casting aspersions on your motives.