London is no longer an English city

[Leafyhouse]

Said by John Cleese (he of Monty Python fame), recently. Link to story is here:

www.bbc.com/news/entertainment-arts-48451384

What do other people think? I do see London's diversity as being its great strength, but maybe it's just because I live in the London bubble - and maybe the view from the rest of the country is utter horror that the capital seems to be becoming increasingly disconnected from the country. Both economically and culturally. Hence the Brexit vote - Remain in a sea of Leave.

What's the view from others?

What because you have repeatedly 1used headline figures erroneously to makw your point?

That's critique.

We agree that the north could do with more funding, but you seem to think that this is a zero sum game that if you took from London it would benefit. It wouldn't.

I have linked parliamentary research and articles citing research. You may dismiss them as ‘headlines’ rather than accept they are correct but think there is enough evidence out there to substantiate my argument.

But your point about theatre funding was undermined by the next paragraph down in your linked document, stating tgat the most funding went to national organisations based in London, not that London theatre got more funding. ( Note that funding to the national theatre and others who do residencies in otger places will be listed in this. Your article about museums and galleries was about council funded ones. None of national institutions near you which have i listed above is funded by local councils, but by nationals organisations and trusts.

So you use evidence, but just for the headlines not the true data.

OK...

howwudufeel You are appalled by my post? What exactly do you take issue with! You seem happy to argue with people who resort to stereotypes and insults 🤔

I don’t agree with your suggestion that living conditions in London are worse because of relative deprivation. You also seem to suggest that things are not as bad in regions because of housing costs. That is over simplistic and just wrong.

Great straw man there howwudu. what I said is that Wigan is not all deprivation, nor that London is all affluence. In fact there is worse deprivation in London and for a person on the same wage, life in London is worse. The issue is that there is less opportunity in Wigan - and that is a result of the U.K. government (of whatever colour) being worse at investing in infrastructure than eg Germany.

The straw man accusation again...

Happens a lot to you does it? You could actually acknowledge some reality?

Sorry, acknowledge and debate some of the complexity of the reality instead of playing the populist playbook a la Farage......

I have never been accused of it once on this forum and I have been on here for years. I have been accused of it twice on one thread.
I am a remainer. Resolutely so.

Sorry you are still not addressing the argument. It is all indignation and resorting to stereotypes. Austerity has had horrendous consequences whether you live in Wigan or London. Some of the worst examples of how austerity has affected lives I know of have been of how it has limited the lives of disabled people in London, wealthy South eastern towns, and my own friend I grew up with in the North. Let’s direct our ire on the right people, the social Darwinists, the ones who do not have a clue about how our economy works (the majority of politicians), the ones who are putting party above country

It's easy to assess levels of deprivation in different areas of the U.K. because the government publishes this data.

This map shows deprivation levels, with dark blue representing the 10% most deprived areas.

There are a lot in London, which will come as no surprise to anyone who has actually lived there.

I am in no way resorting to stereotypes.
There is poverty in London. That is undeniable. However, there is opportunity too. That is the difference between Deprived areas in London and those elsewhere.

There is opportunity in Wigan, and in Liverpool, Manchester and loads of otger places in the north.

One of the problems is that is no longer at the end of the road.

how I think there are particular challenges to being poor in a rich area. However, there are also pluses, services and policing etc will generally be better as the privileged around you pay high council tax are vocal in their local demands.

It's inaccurate that London has always been a melting pot, there have been small waves of immigration which tended to assimilate within a generation.

I was looking at street scene photographs of London from c1900 and the entire population was white. It's neither good nor bad, but it is different.

One in ten of London's population was black in the Roman era.

Look at all the photos you want.

You are so, so wrong Zipee. If you look at the most recent studies on social mobility you will see that. You are throwing out opinions as fact and it’s just plain wrong.

I am in London and it certainly does not feel like an English city.

Well that’s very odd because I’ve lived here all my life and it feels quintessentially English.

Not everyone is English though, or white, if that is what you mean by ‘English’, which is one of the things I love about it.

I worked in Wigan in a senior position for 10 years and it is certainly deprived. There is little skilled work. It is easy for people to say" just move", but it is not as easy as that. People often do not feel confident enough to just up sticks and move, and many don't have the skills that are required elsewhere.

But, importantly why on earth should people have to move away from the place they were born and where family, friends and roots are?.

One of the major Brexiter beefs is all the immigrants coming over here taking jobs (theoretically). It’s odd that so many immigrants manage to leave their home countries in search of work etc, but the some British can’t even leave their home towns.

{It’s odd that so many immigrants manage to leave their home countries in search of work etc, but the some British can’t even leave their home towns.}

Maybe this is a side effect of the welfare state? Some British EXPECT that the government/faeries/unicorns will provide well paying jobs at the end of the street.
Workers were brought in from all around the world during the height of the UK industrial revolution. The potato famine in Ireland saw thousands emigrate.
Enterprising entrepreneurs from the UK now could emigrate to parts of Europe (or anywhere) where the wealth they have is greater than the place they move to. Alternatively you can sit at home and complain that the UK government are rubbish, which they always have been and show no sign of changing anytime soon.

I can’t believe what I am reading. Why are you bashing people in these communities? They are decent and hard working on the whole and just want a good standard of living. We can’t all live in London.

thighofreief Because most of the wave of immigration at the end of the nineteenth century would have been Irish...

Copper upthread was claiming Liverpool was “English” when in fact it is the most Irish of English cities with an accent to match. I remember my grandfather in the 60s complaint at length about “the Irish” . You can be white and not “English” (And I am proud to have the Irish great grandparents to prove it - unfortunately great, as just one generation more recent and I would have the privilege of being able to apply for an Irish passport and keep the EU citizenship I and my children and niece and nephew so value.... 🇮🇪 )

Wikipedia on scouse “Until the mid-19th century, the dominant local accent was similar to that of neighbouring areas of Lancashire. The influence of Irish and Welsh migrants, combined with European accents, contributed to a distinctive local Liverpool accent” So has Liverpool not been an English city for over a hundred years? 😂

The issue is that there is less opportunity in Wigan - and that is a result of the U.K. government (of whatever colour) being worse at investing in infrastructure than eg Germany.

Industry too. The Tory government famously channelled investment away from industry into the finance in the 80s. That is when regional underfunding kicked in. And that is why the EU has stepped in with financial support to areas the U.K. government overlooked. (Not just industrial areas, also rural areas eg Wales and Cornwall).

The idea that London absorbs all the funding at the expense of other areas is false. There is not enough regional investment, yet nor is there enough investment in London either. We have massively deprived areas, we have massively high transport and property costs. It’s actually very difficult to survive on minimum wage or benefits in London due to the cost of living. And many keyworkers such as nurses, firefighters, police have to live outside and commute in due to property prices.

A one day off peak travel card zone 1-6 is around £12 which is roughly 16% of JSA weekly income. Anytime including peak hours is around £18, which is 25%. If you only need zones 1-4 it’s £13.