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Brexit

Westminstenders: One Pepperoni Pizza Please. And a Milkshake To Go.

986 replies

RedToothBrush · 22/05/2019 21:03

On the Eve of the EU Elections that we never met to happen, and we don't know what the next hour next mind day might bring.

Farage is enjoying the theatre of milkshakes. It means he gets attention and gets to play the victim. And avoid talking about his dodgy friends and even dodgier financing. The Brexit Party are polling so highly its possible he could be PM. And boy does he know it. The temptation is there and its too much to resist.

May has refused to resign so far tonight after a day of asking her to. The 1922 Committee refused to change the rules to help oust her - possibly because they don't want the next PM to be beset with challenges to the leadership at the drop of a hat. Graham Brady is seeing her on Friday... The ERG are not happy bunnies.

May is still apparently planning to plough on with the WAB with a referendum possibly attached. Though this remains to be seen.

Meanwhile Leadsom has just quit the Cabinet. She was one of the Brexit 'Pizza Club'. Rumours are this might be the Cabinet withdrawing support for her. Though Gove has said he doesn't intend to resign (tonight at least).

Rumour is that May's senior staff have abandoned her to let her make the decision to go. And rumours are that when Leadsom rang May to tell her she was leaving cabinet, May didn't tell her senior staff. This comes two weeks after rumours where that Phillip May was at the point of telling her it was time to resign. The rumours of course may be just that, rumours but it's hard to see how or why anyone would tell her to carry on now.

And so tomorrow. Who would vote for this utter shower of shit? Even if you were the most loyal of Tories?

The thing tomorrow is to get the remain vote out. It doesn't matter ultimately what people vote for. Every vote cast for remain keeps the Brexit Party popular vote down. Even if it doesn't win seats. And that is psychologically important.

Tomorrow make sure EVERYONE you know who is anti brexit party votes. More so if they are a Remainer voting for a Remain party, but also if they are solid Labour or the rarest of things, a true blue.

It MATTERS. Narratives will be set.

If you are not sure if you are registered to vote, please TRY ANYWAY. The worst case is you are turned away and have lost 20 mins of your life. But you might also be able to vote and that might change the course of events.

Talk to people tomorrow. Remind them. Make sure it's about preventing a hard right foothold. Apathy will destroy our futures. Being fed up of politicians so refusing to vote is actively shooting yourself in the face.

Who am I voting for?

Still no idea. But I will vote.

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tava63 · 23/05/2019 23:09

How can I find out about turn out today?

RedToothBrush · 23/05/2019 23:13

A few points based on the '100% certain to vote' column for YouGov.

When they do a poll they discount all people who don't know how they will vote (unless its a GE - it which case for the final poll they try to work out what the don't know will do - and this is where the devil in the detail is). I don't believe that YouGov did this finer detail for any of their EU polling.

SO: If Remainers are more likely to not know how they will vote, then they may be more difficult to predict. (Note, I didn't know what I was going to do until in the booth, so in theory I wouldn't show up on this polling).

In earlier polls, you would expect a lower number for all groups for 'certain to vote'. You are possibly more likely to say you will definitely vote, if you KNOW, who you are going to vote for.

So here's a comparison from the YouGov 8/9th May survey and the 19th - 21st May surveys.

One of the interesting things is the % of 18-24 year olds saying they are definitely going to vote, doesn't shift at all. It stays solidly on 39%. It suggests no one is engaging at all with the 18 - 24% group in this election. All the other age groups shift. The purple circles are the 65+ age group which is the largest group in numbers - this goes up 5%. But actually the biggest % shift is in the 50 - 64 age group with an 11% shift. The group that reduced May's majority at the GE were the 25 - 49 age group though (it wasn't the real youth vote, but the 'middle aged vote' swinging at the last minute from Conservative to Labour that made the most significant difference).

What bothers me is really where momentum has been. In the 8th/9th survey 55% of Leavers said they were certain to vote. This was LESS than the 58% of Remainers who said they were certain to vote. BUT this switched by the 19th/21st. Leavers were more likely than remainer to vote with 63% to 61%.

The changes in the polling fortunes for the the Brexit Party and the LDs has come from 2017 Con and LD voters becoming far more likely to vote. 2017 Labour Voters haven't been motivated as much in either direction. 2017 LD voters are THE most likely group to vote. But theres loads less of them than 2017 Conservative voters. The apathy of 2017 Labour Voters is really showing here.

And thats why YouGov have put the Brexit party as high as they have in their polling.

BUT the big cavet is the 'don't know group' who were not sure how or if they would vote. And these would fall MORE into the remain column than the Brexit column precisely because remainers have a more difficult decision to make. And thats the only hope I can really see here tbh.

A low turnout means that this election is particularly volatile in terms of polling accuracy.

And thats what seems to be being said on twitter:

Adam Ramsay @AdamRamsay
SNP, Lib Dem and Green sources all agree massive turn out in heavily Remain and young areas of Scotland, but lower turnout elsewhere. #EuropeanElection2019

The issue with this is, that the Brexit Party have a broad base appeal geographically whilst the LDs /Greens in particular have traditionally been very concerntrated so you EXPECT high turnouts in Remainy areas.

Sam McBride @SJAMcBride
The turnout picture from figures I've seen & from political sources is of many polling stations across rural & urban areas of Northern Ireland where turnout is down & none where it is up on the recent council elections - that suggests less than half of the electorate has voted.

And it doesn't seem to be holding up at all in NI.

My suspicion is that Labour might under perform compared to polling, whilst LDs might do slightly better. The Brexit Party, I just don't know how it will go. I fear the worst tbh, because the Brexit Party do have that 'clear message'.

I find it interesting that the Netherlands has shown something of a centre left resurgance - I'm guessing the closest thing we have to this is a labour remainer grouping, that no one saw coming - is this like a Corbyn 2017 effect? Or is this group particularly difficult to predict atm? And does this cut across Europe as a whole?

The Netherlands is VERY different to us, but there have been broad trends going on over the last few years across borders - this deindustrialisation / provisional town pattern being one of the most significant. Significant polarisation is another.

Turnout is everything. I don't think we are as motivated as the Netherlands, which is why I don't think Sunday will be pretty. And whilst we don't have an exit poll here, we should have some idea of turnout tonight

The verification process, IS being done tonight in many places to check the number of votes cast.

The lower it is, the MORE unpredictable I think the result will be. And the worst it will be for Labour / Conservatives.

Cas Mudde @CasMudde
I sat at @deafspraaktv when exit polls for The Netherlands in #EP2019 came through and I almost fell from my chair. PvdA biggest party?!?! Social Democrats as big as (two) far right together (PVV & FvD)! Some quick thoughts. #Thread [PvdA = centre left]
1. Important: this is an exit poll and claims a margin of 1 seat. While exit polls have long been very reliable, this has been less so in recent elections, in part because differences and parties are smaller.
2. NONE of the polls predicted anything like this. In fact, several polls had PvdA at half of the 18% they got in exit poll. Only Kantar came close, but had VVD still bigger. [pollsters got it wrong]
3. All polls had FvD much higher. This could have been correct, in which case the Rutte-Baudet debate cost FvD dearly (I'm skeptical because debates tend not to have that much impact, although this one was allegedly well watched). [FvD = far right]
4. Alternatively, debate led to higher turnout among undecided PvdA voters, who were triggered by fact that Rutte limited #EP2019 to choice between right and far right. Turnout is estimated at 41.2%, which is almost 4% higher than in 2014.
5. PvdA scored more than THREE TIMES as high as in disastrous 2017 national elections! But also almost TWICE as high as provincial elections just few months ago. This seems to indicate Timmermans Effect. [Is it more comparible to a Corbyn effect? Or a more broad centre left revival?]
6. Frans Timmermans (PvdA) was Spitzenkandidat of S&D and #EP2019 was partly presented as struggle between Weber (EPP) and Timmermans (S&D). Perhaps Dutch voters rallied around their local boy?
7. It could also be part backlash to anti-Timmermans spot by desperate "radical left" SP, which created massive backlash to SP and, perhaps, both attention and sympathy for Timmermans.
8. Rutte-Baudet debate was, according to exit poll, debate between shared second biggest party and shared fourth biggest party. This should lead to reflection within media, including public media, about their role in cynical move of Rutte.
9. Even if this is just one country, and an exit poll, it will affect the broader framing of #EP2019 -- in this sense, the Dutch functioned as the first primary in the US. Journalists will look for "revival of Social Democrats" as well as "rise of populism". [the narrative will be interesting...]
10. All in all, this was NOT what I, or anyone else I know or follow, had expected. Several other countries will have higher turnout. Perhaps there will be more surprises. Game on! #EP2019 #TheEnd

Westminstenders: One Pepperoni Pizza Please. And a Milkshake To Go.
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tobee · 23/05/2019 23:14

The front pages are pretty flippin' depressing. Especially The Fail

Moanranger · 23/05/2019 23:22

Tobee actually whiffy, Brexiteer’s jacket smelt like it had been hanging in a chippy for about a month!
My gut feeling is that BP will get more like 25%. Still pretty bad, but nothing like what has been predicted. I may be proven wrong.
Good to see posters up-thread who share my fondness for algorithms.

RedToothBrush · 23/05/2019 23:39

FOR REFERENCE TURNOUT FOR 2014 was 35.6%

Ged Mirfin @GedMirfin (Ribble Valley Borough Cllr)
Turnout in the EU Elections in the Ribble Valley estimated at c. 35-36% - a 2nd Referendum this isn’t. Many voters stayed at home because at home because they were confronted by too much uncertainty!

General Election 2017: Ribble Valley
Conservative 57.8%
Labour 33.9%
Liberal Democrat 5.9%
Green 2.4%

Ribble Valley was roughly 58% leave. It had a 70% turnout for the GE. Its somewhere which generally has an above average turnout.

Although the overall turnout of the 2017 General Election was 68.7% (up from 66.2% in 2015), the turnout in individual constituencies varied from 53% to 79.5%.

Wyre Forest DC @WyreForestDC
Provisional turnout figures in today's #EUelections2019. Don't take account of postal votes handed in at polling stations so some figures may change when verified on Sunday.

Provisional turnout for whole of Wyre Forest is 32%, slightly higher than 31% for #le2019. @bbcmtd

Wyre Forest is a local government district in Worcestershire, England, covering the towns of Kidderminster, Stourport-on-Severn and Bewdley.

Wyre Forest Constituency 2017:
Conservative 58.4%
Labour 32.3%
Liberal Democrat 3.8%
UKIP 3.5%
Green 2.0%
Turnout 65.8%
(just under average)

Wyre Forest was very Brexity. Estimated as 63% Leave for the ref.

Jack @JChristy93
Wyre Forest: 32% - 1% up on EU Elections. Highest turnout was 40% in the 'Wyre Forest Rural' ward.

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tava63 · 23/05/2019 23:42

In the EU 2014 elections Scotland had a dismal 33% turn out, even lower than the 35% UK wide turn out - and it is worth noting that the BNP were one of the political parties standing at that time.

A key strength of Nigel Farage is that he does get a sizeable number of people out to vote. If Remainers do ever manage to secure a People's Vote what are your suggestions on how they can get their supporters out to vote?

RedToothBrush · 23/05/2019 23:51

Southend-on-Sea BC @SouthendBC
The verification process has been completed and the turnout figure for #Southend is confirmed as 33.23%. #EUElections

Southend West 2017
Conservative 55.2%
Labour 34.0%
Liberal Democrat 4.5%
UKIP 3.5%
Green 1.8%
turnout 65%

57% leave

Rochford and Southend East
Conservative 48.7%
Labour 37.0%
Independent 6.2%
UKIP 3.8%
Liberal Democrat 2.7%
Green 1.7%
turnout 64%

leave 60%

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Iambuffy · 23/05/2019 23:52

I have no idea what to think about that red

Peregrina · 23/05/2019 23:54

Remain has to have a more united front, and has to have someone who can communicate. If he was 30 years younger I would say that Heseltine would be a good bet for this. Blair might have been but he's been tainted by the Iraq war. So who is there in the Remain camp who might be able to channel an inner Blair-Heseltine?

RedToothBrush · 24/05/2019 00:01

Harlow Council @HarlowCouncil
🗳 stage 1 - the verification is complete...

Brian Keane, the local Returning Officer, has just announcing the turnout figure for Harlow in the #EUelections2019

17820 votes cast giving a turnout of 30.47%

How this compares to recent turnouts in Harlow: 🗳Harlow Council elections May 2019 - 26.55% 🗳General Election June 2017 - 66.37% 🗳Essex County Council elections May 2017 - 28.59% 🗳EU referendum June 2016 - 73.56%

Harlow 2017
Conservative 54.0%
Labour 38.3%
UKIP 4.0%
Liberal Democrat 2.2%
Green 1.5%
turnout 66%

leave 67%

Thats a lower turnout than I'd expect

So far, I think the others haven't been significant up or down on where I might expect them to be.

Historically the UKIP vote in 2015 in all those constituencies has been around the 15 - 20% mark.

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RedToothBrush · 24/05/2019 00:07

City of Lincoln Council @lincolncouncil
The turnout figure in Lincoln for #EUelections2019 is 32.37%

2017 Lincoln
Labour 47.9%
Conservative 44.7%
UKIP 2.6%
Liberal Democrat 2.6%
Green 1.2%
Independent 0.6%
turnout 66.6%

leave 57%

Hmm... first labour one. Slightly lower turnout than the others???

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tava63 · 24/05/2019 00:08

Peregrina I agree Hesseltine has been magnificent. I was fortunate to see him speak at the Festival of Politics in Edinburgh towards the end of last year, there he too highlighted this issue of leadership but he was clearly perturbed by this longstanding dilemma of a Remain leadership vacuum. For me it is upsetting that still at this late stage no one has emerged that can command enough support.

ClarkeMurphy · 24/05/2019 00:09

Thanks for posting the numbers, red. I can't realistically wait til Sunday to get my statistics fix!

ClarkeMurphy · 24/05/2019 00:13

If that turnout is reflected across the country, I don't think the results will actually matter - it will be spun as a furious electorate refusing to participate because the government has failed to deliver Brexit.

AutumnCrow · 24/05/2019 00:13

Looking unofficial Twitter exit surveys on my Twitter feed, for what it's worth, and it's very strongly pro remain, with Lib Dems way in front.

If Leavers in places like Southend couldn't be fucked to turn out, and the Remainers did (big creative community there, E15 Acting School and theatres etc), and this is mirrored elsewhere, then hope springs eternal.

RedToothBrush · 24/05/2019 00:15

East Cambridgeshire @EastCambs
The turnout for today's #EuropeanElection2019 in the @EastCambs district is 38.2%

EU ref: Leave 50.9%
Hmmmmm....

Neath Port Talbot Council @NPTCouncil
The turnout for #Resolven #ByElection: 50.38%
(This one is a council by election - so got to be an outlier)

Jon Ratcliffe @jratcliffephoto
Verifying of EU Election votes in #Swindon done by 11.30pm, turnout 36%, ginger nuts eaten. Counters given the nod to go home at 11.45pm.

Swindon. That bell weather town...
Leave 54.7%

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RedToothBrush · 24/05/2019 00:17

Not seen anything confirmed for the labour north yet. rumours that Middlesboro is very low... but seen nothing reputable yet.

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RedToothBrush · 24/05/2019 00:20

A turnout of 29% in Merthyr Tydfil. Farage held a rally last week there.

Leave 56.4%

Hmm....

Westminstenders: One Pepperoni Pizza Please. And a Milkshake To Go.
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ClarkeMurphy · 24/05/2019 00:22

I take it we haven't had any figures from remain areas?

woman19 · 24/05/2019 00:22

What do your Hmms mean red?

RedToothBrush · 24/05/2019 00:22

Merthyr is a lower turnout area usually. But thats lower than it should be.

Labour voters....

...did they turnout out.

Hints are they haven't

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tobee · 24/05/2019 00:23

Do we know the eu election turnout for last time in say Merthyr?

woman19 · 24/05/2019 00:23

ok thanks.

tobee · 24/05/2019 00:23

I'm getting super confused now Grin

RedToothBrush · 24/05/2019 00:26

West Suffolk Council @West_Suffolk
We have finished verification. In #WestSuffolk for the #EuropeanElection2019 out of an electorate of 117,390 there were 41,766 ballot papers issued giving a turnout of 35.58%.

Leave 63%

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