A Hallowe'en Brexit

[Apoiads]

You couldn't make this shit up.

They will review in June so maybe that’s an opportunity for another referendum to be proposed. This would give the EU a solid reason for a further extension, rather than allowing the infighting to continue indefinitely.

I'm glad they've arranged it so as to not interrupt my end May/start June holiday in Greece . But I think that the latest outcome will result in lots of unpleasantness here. Hopefully just ERG-Yaxley Lennon types whining while we all get bored. Is boredom too much to hope for?

Sorry yes, I meant to ask you @redskyandrainbows.

So the remaining options are Revoke and Customs Union.?

After the Cooper-Letwin bill, is no deal Brexit illegal? I am very confused by this because I thought it was still the default option.... in the case of no other decision....

Only problem with a referendum, would be, say there were 3 choices, Leave with a withdrawal adreement, Customs Union, Revoke. The CU and revoke vote could be split.

The withdrawal agreement is just the transition agreement, that's all. No one objects to it. Not even labour. Or the dup, What's objected to is the political statement that goes with it. That is what speaks to the future relationship after we have transitioned out. It's what means a backstop is required.

So a withdrawal agreement, is always required, it gives us a grace period to work to the full exit basically. It won't be reopened. It doesn't need to be. It's the political statement that does, and the eu is happy to amend that.

What deal will be agreed? Or what new political statement? Likely it will be a customs union, as it has the most support. Potentially also second referendum if that fails.

Teresa May whipped against the customs union. And it still only failed by three votes. It's very likelyif it was a free vote it would pass in the house and gain a majority.

It's a very soft brexit, and it means the back Stop is no longer relevant. We simply continue to trade on eu terms. All the bull shit about us not being able to negotiate our own terms is just that, bullshit.

Does anyone in their right mind believe for one moment we will actually get better trading terms on our own, than we would get if we joined forces with power houses like Germany and France, no. Of course not. And make no mistake, we were a very very big voice in EUROPE. Much of what was agreed, be it laws, or trading terms was driven by us as the fifth largest economy in the world. We were not some poor little country being dictated to.

The reality is we have a lot more sovereignty being part of the eu, than we will ever have out of it, where we are out with our begging bowls, trying to negotiate terms that come close to what we had in the eu, and changing our laws to incentivise countries to do business with us, to base themselves here. So at their whim. Not ours. Us agreeing their terms not them agreeing ours.

Because stand alone we are tiny in comparison to Europe or markets like America or China.

Out, they get to dictate to us. We don't get to dictate to them.

So are we in the same place until Hallowe'en now?

I thought something had to change for the EU to agree to a deadline. You know, like May had to suggest a referendum or a GE?

All the stockpiles will be out of date.

That’s not how stockpiles work, you buy new stuff and eat the older stuff. Rotation, evaluation and improving your stores.
I hope that all the MPs and parties will see the need to work together on Brexit, rather than spitting and frothing and guarding their own tiny patch. What I’d really like is the whole shitstorm cancelled, but I doubt that’s an option.
It’ll give agriculture a harvest season to work out how to cope without EU labour too.

Rotation, evaluation and improving your stores

Has to be the most pointless activity ever 🤣🤣🤣

No, I’m a supply teacher who doesn’t get paid for eight weeks in the summer. So my stores may be used up then, depending on finances.
I also came from a childhood home that had money but was crap about food. So my cupboards and stores are full, and have been since I had my own home years back.
A pointless activity is hoarding stuff inappropriately so that it is useless when you come to need it.

That's your position @Bluntness100 . Other people take a different view.
I will do a stock take and use/refresh as needed.
Dd is very excited about reviewing our treat stash
I will also do more experimenting of vegan recipes with my family and crack on with veg planting in my containers once the threat of frost has passed.
And wait for DD's Irish citizenship to cone through while we are still in the EU.

Bluntness100
The DUP and ERG hate the Withdrawal Agreement because it sets the backstop in stone as it is an international treaty.

Curly, I am not against a second referendum, I just don't know that it would solve anything. I would vote the same way as I did in 2016 (remain), but the result could still be very close.

My preference is for the whole Brexshit project to be abandoned and Article 50 to be revoked.

This will drag on till Xmas and then 2020 clearly!

The numberfaker, no it doesn't.

The backstop is required due to the political declaration. As there is no customs union it means both countries need a border, hence the back stop in the withdrawal agreement. It's only there due to the political statement. This is absolute fact. It is not the withdrawal agree,ent that's the issue, it's the political declaration.

If we change the political declaration, ie to a customs union, then the back stop would not be required. It is cause and effect. It is and never has been about the withdrawal agreement. It has always, always been about the political statement. That's the "deal" and that's what means a backstop is required as an insurance policy in the withdrawal agreement.

There is so much confusion about this. The withdrawal agreement is nothing more than a short term transition document. The political statement is the deal and what speaks to the future relationship when we have transitioned and exited.

I really don't think I can take another 6 months of this shit.

I wonder if the DUP will turn to No Brexit as the only way to protect the union they are so entranced by. Which would fuck over ERG.
Fucking over ERG or DUP would make me happy.

The backstop is required due to the political declaration

How? As far as I know the backstop was agreed in the entirely separate "Protocol on Ireland and Northern Ireland" and is only mentioned in the PD as something which both parties are determined to replace.

No no deal isn’t illegal the cooper bill just meant tm was obliged to ask for an extension rather than no deal

She’s done that.

Now the new leave date needs to be formally approved by Parliament today - there is a very slight risk Parliament won’t agree and then we’d be left in a very odd position of sort of no deal - uk law would say we’ve left and Eu law not. This is all because the leave date needs to be changed in uk law.

My preference is revoke remain and reform too.

Brexit won’t change anything for the people who voted for it - it’ll only make things worse . Reform is needed.

I also can’t take another six months of this shit

Do we look forward to a Dickensian Scrooge like Christmas? Or maybe the ghost of a Christmas future will terrify people into remaining.

I just want to share my loathing of that toad like Francois. He makes my flesh creep🤮and he looks like an extra from Benidorm the comedy,.,

@Redskyandrainbows67 not quite...there was an amendment to the bill just before it was passed which removed the requirement to ask parliament to agree to a new date precisely so that this in/out situation was avoided. May has agreed the new date on her own, as is her right.

Thank you confessions - yes I stand corrected - phew. At least we don’t now have the drama of no deal! Yet...

Completely off topic but someone up thread seems to think Samhain and Halloween are the same thing... they're not.