If anyone had told me when I was first elected... that less than a decade later the Government of this country would be pursuing a policy that necessitates the stockpiling of body bags

[StealthPolarBear]

Reading the transcript of the debate and this stood out.

If the UK asks for an extension, the EU27 have to be unanimous in agreeing it, any 1 has a veto.
It is possible that Spain could veto until Gibraltar is put up for negotiation. Similarly other EU countries with a particular 'discussion' to be had

There is a difference between Spain vetoing the extension because of Gibraltar and the Council saying we have to give up Gibraltar to get an extension. The latter will not happen, the EU does not get involved in its members' territorial scraps.

Not the same thing.

I suppose Ireland and Denmark could kick off about Rockall...

Clavinova's posts ina nutshell are "it's fiiiiiine". I would love it if Clavinova were right about No Deal but luckily, Parliament isn't prepared to take that chance and is blocking it.
Similarly, Theresa May, has also decided not to risk it and would rather piss off her entire party by getting an orderly Brexit with Labour Party votes if she can. Which all rather suggests that it's not fiiiiiiine.

We used to use sheets, back in the day (and I'm only talking 10 years or so ago), so it wouldn't be a complete disaster if a body bag wasn't available.

Medicines, etc., is a real problem. You can't substitute for missing medication.

From what I've been able to gather, Fishes works in transport and logistics, so I'm more inclined to believe her than Clavinova and her statement that it will all be fiiiiine. Those pesky experts...

pointythings

I'm not asking you to believe me - I've linked to Kent County Council, Port of Dover, and now HMRC.
This is what they mean by a managed no-deal I guess:

www.gov.uk/guidance/register-for-simplified-import-procedures-if-the-uk-leaves-the-eu-without-a-deal

In the event that the UK leaves the EU without a deal, on 12 April 2019 ...

"HMRC has put in place transitional simplified procedures to make it easier for you to import goods from the EU.We’ll review them 3 to 6 months after they’re introduced."

"What transitional simplified procedures are"

"Under import processes for trading with the rest of the world, goods are not released from customs control until you make a full import declaration and pay the duty you owe in full."

"But transitional simplified procedures reduce the amount of information you need to give in an import declaration when the goods are crossing the border."

They do this by allowing you to defer
•submitting a full declaration
•paying any duty

There's a nice flow-chart if you scroll down here;

Published 29th March:
Facilitating free-flowing trade on day one for roll on roll off (ro-ro) and Eurotunnel movements in the event of a no deal scenario is a priority

www.gov.uk/government/publications/communications-pack-roll-on-roll-off-ports-and-eurotunnel-in-the-event-of-a-no-deal-eu-exit/information-for-users-of-roll-on-roll-off-ports-and-eurotunnel-in-a-no-deal-scenario

jasjas
Not sure why you are laughing out loud - you actually believe the body bag story.

From iNews:

"More than 400 MPs were at odds with their constituencies over Brexit by backing Remain in an area that voted to leave–although most have now said that they will support the Brexit process."

You Gov Poll result;

Only 35% of people believe warnings of severe short term disruption such as food or medicine shortages - 45% of people think these are exaggerated or invented.

What people believe doesn't really fill me with confidence that they know what the heck they are on about.

Yes absolutely certain that the billions spend by industries & Govt across the board was because they had too much cash lying about.

I mean, BMW just wanted a few days off on hols and clearly not bothered about supply chain issues.

Who gives a 4x what ignorant people believe or not?

Just seen the latest poll result (1st April) on AIBU:

Only 35% think the idea of food and medicine shortages is realistic, while 47% think it’s exaggerated or invented.

jasjas
I'm sorry - but I think you must be a bit loopy - how can you possibly believe that we will need extra body bags because of a power issue caused by a no-deal Brexit?

But i didn't say that though did i? if we have an unrelated emergency situation during any brexit shortages, the govt has to plan for these too, power is needed for mortuaries....

Wouldn't the govt need supplies of body bags in the event of a flu pandemic or wide spread power issues? strikes? etc so stockpiling is a good idea if we proceed with this madness

Remember the only reason we are in this state of national crisis is because of the lunatics who want go back in time.

Although you also said...

(He didn't have to mention body bags did he?)

Why not? if its true and i suspect it is, then he has a duty to state what the NHS is doing.

Are you Project Fear - or a bit loopy?

Kent County Council advice to schools:

“Increase in border checks at the Channel ports and Eurotunnel possibly resulting in a slowdown of operations and build-up of freight transport around the ports and surrounding areas, and along the M2, M20, A20 and Manston (Op Brock, Brock- Manston and Brock-M26) The mitigation and control measures for such a build up of freight are shown in appendices 1 to 3. The level of disruption caused by this build-up of freight on the Kent road network will differ from district to district but it is fair to assume all parts of Kent will be affected. The main effects of severe road network congestion would be:
o Staff, parent and pupil/student transport challenges
o School & settings closure or part closures due to staff shortages
o Increased use of public transport beyond current capacity (including air, train
and bus)
o Possible disruption for local communities and businesses.
o Possible disruption to school and special school pupil/student transport o Possible disruption to out of school and extra-curricular activity
o Potential for late collection of pupils/students from schools
• Logistical delays causing possible supply-chain disruption, resulting in challenges in maintaining service delivery including food, fuel, medicines and essential contractors.
• Potential for increased numbers of migrants arriving in Kent as a consequence of the increased opportunity afforded by congestion on Continent, including unaccompanied asylum-seeking children.
• Reduced air quality due to more traffic congestion”

www.kentadvice.co.uk/images/kentadvice/documents/Brexit-Guidance-Note-for-Schools.pdf

Just seen the latest poll result (1st April) on AIBU:

Only 35% think the idea of food and medicine shortages is realistic, while 47% think it’s exaggerated or invented.

What do people’s opinions in a YouGov poll on this have to do with the reality? I’m not sure what you’re trying to prove with this.

Opinions trump facts Rafa.

That’s what got us into this mess really.

That was my exact thought as I pressed post, noble.

This whole mess is just so completely unnecessary.

I have a completely different take on this, and don't find it shocking

• because body bags were used during the 'winter of discontent' (which inremember)
• because they were a regular part of civil contingency planning (until it was largely dismantled in the 1980s) so regular govt policy (along with certain planning regs on football grounds and other sports fields so places suitable for conversion to mass graves were already decided just in case)
• because some of it all got dusted off in 2000 (tanker drivers strike, fear of round 2)

So if it is a shock that govts plan like this (and don't even start of military contingency planning!) I think says more about never having paid attention before, and assuming (wrongly) it's new and unprecedented.

noblegiraffe

KCC's Guidance Note for Schools document you linked to was written towards the end of 2018 - prior to the increased contingency planning for a no-deal scenario.

And we all know that local authority employees in the education department can be a little "over dramatic" (Headteacher has to clean the school toilets herself etc)

From the documents I linked to (21st March and 29th March) - the Freight Traffic Management Plan was only devised in December, Operational Fennel was completed in January, and the Simplified Import Procedures announced in February.

KCC 21st March:
"KCC welcomes the Government’s recent guidance on their requirements for Roll-on Roll-off (RoRo) movements entering or leaving the UK for the period following EU exit.This aims to ensure traffic can continue to flow and provides more time to businesses to prepare for changes to EU-UK trade."

"3.5 The Transitional Simplified Procedures (TSP) would only become operational in the event of a no-deal scenario.Once businesses are registered for TSP, they will be able to transport goods from the EU into the UK without having to make a full customs declaration at the border and will be able to postpone paying any import duties."

"This will provide for Business as Usual (BAU) for one year, after which a new custom procedure will come into operation, giving businesses time to prepare for import processes."

" It is anticipated that the Council’s decision-making processes will be used to allocate Government monies for 2018/19 in a timely manner and ensure Kent benefits from available no-deal preparation funding."

No doubt there will be some disruption in a no-deal scenario - but we will cope.

I am surprised to see that you've joined the body bag brigade Noble - I thought you were more sensible than that.

I am with you medtrina I don't find it shocking at all.

RafaIsTheKingOfClay
What do people’s opinions in a YouGov poll on this have to do with the reality? I’m not sure what you’re trying to prove with this.

It's an indication of public opinion - and the fact that the pollsters have used the word invented in their question indicates that you have been somewhat over- zealous with the scaremongering stories.

Clavinova, I'm not sure why you started off discussing traffic flow in Kent (i.e. potential outbound traffic delays) when the point of the thread is potential problems with imports? While the two are obviously connected, the lack of problems on Kent's roads makes sod-all difference to the truck queuing to check in at Calais.

Only 35% think the idea of food and medicine shortages is realistic, while 47% think it’s exaggerated or invented.

On the matter of will there or won't there be food shortages the opinion of the general public is entirely irrelevant. Why on earth would a poll of the general public give any insight into the time trucks are going to take to clear Customs?

Even HMRC have no clue about delays since they have no control of how long it's going to take for trucks to check in at Calais.

Personally I'd expect there to be delays but nowhere near as bad as suggested - and also nowhere near as trivial as suggested by some leavers. There would be shortages of some fresh produce and there would be price increases. Nobody's going to be starving though - not due to food unavailability anyway, cost is another matter.

I've noticed you come on here often to attempt to put a positive spin on negative stories. I assume this is some type of paid role? Talking bollocks seems to be the sort of profession I'd excel at so I'd be grateful for any pointers you could give to get me started on a future career as a... what? What would you call yourself? Propagandist? PR person? Stooge?

Having said that I think it's actually a bit distasteful trying to dupe people like you do. Aren't you ashamed of yourself for taking money in return for lying to people and trying to persuade them to ruin their lives? I'm not sure I could do it.

FishesaPlenty
I've noticed you come on here often to attempt to put a positive spin on negative stories.I assume this is some type of paid role?Talking bollocks seems to be the sort of profession I'd excel at so I'd be grateful for any pointers you could give to get me started on a future career as a...what? What would you call yourself? Propagandist? PR person? Stooge?

ha,ha,ha - I'm a sahm (but ex-lawyer) who voted to Leave the EU by the slightest of margins - someone who is so pissed off by the lie, after lie, after lie that's coming out of the Remain camp - that I've decided to do my own investigations into the facts.

The reason I link to external sources so much is because I don't just want to offer my opinion - you can read it for yourselves.The reason I copy and paste so much is because some people will not bother to read the links.

Who knows whether leaving the EU will turn out to be the right decision?

Remainers should have tried to win me over with honest debate - but the bullying, the insults, the lies and the scaremongering I've witnessed (on here, in the media, by our own MPs) has made me so much more pro-Brexit than before the referendum.

I'm just a thick leaver (with a law degree).

I haven't questioned your intelligence, just your motives and your selective (mis)interpretation of 'information' you've found on the internet.