Westminstenders: The Bill Cash Appreciation Society

[RedToothBrush]

We've had a new thread pretty much everyday for the last week or so, so I'm short on inspiration.

There haven't been too many new developments today. There have been two ministerial resignations. Both were ministers close to Boris Johnson.

We had a vote to add an extension if we still have no deal agreed at the end of next week to the Withdrawal Bill. May has said she will do this anyway; this would merely tie her hands. It passed by 5 votes. It now is fast tracked to the committee stage and third reading.

A business of the house amendment by Benn to secure a debate and Indicative Vote 3 next week failed after a speakers vote. Bercow followed convention and didn't create a majority where there was not one (though under Erskine May he is free to do the opposite at his discretion).

Corbyn has met May for talks which have been described as construction, though we have no further details though curiously Emily Thornberry put out a statement demanding a ref on whatever was decided which suggests Corbyn isn't keen on the idea. Rumours are of Schrodingers Customs Union: somehow being in a union but not a union. It can't be called a customs union. And Liam Fox has said Corbyn can't have his union. Though he may have a vested interest as he loses his job if Corbyn gets his way.

Oh and the Commons photocopier broke so no one knows what is currently supposed to be happening.

Otherwise it's been a quiet day, all things considered. Too quiet?

Giving each UK nation a veto in future raises the question why it wasn't done in for the referendum

Alex Salmond suggested this but David Lidington told him it wasn't needed because it was only advisory.

Ha ha. I rate David Lidington, but it was obvious they said no because the Tory Brexiteers knew Scotland would vote against.

Thanks for posting what you did @ BigChocFrenzy Thu 04-Apr-19 10:56:16 I hadn't the words to put it myself.

for Sos
I'll be thinking of you in Cambridge on 13th - I live very close. It will be my 80th birthday and I do sometimes wonder how I shall look back on that day... stay strong.

I’ll be raising a glass at end of August!!

No more nursery bills

It is tough although the 30 hours I get for my youngest is a big help.

How many of you cheered when your kids went to school !

Life doesn't have to be so tough in the UK - it is political choices that made it so
Completely agree with this. BCF

When I used to visit my then German boyfriend many years ago, I noticed how easily available and reasonably priced were rental flats in the funky town he lived in. It gave much more freedom to young people.

I presume this is still broadly the case?

One of the reasons there is a desperate shortage of teachers in the south of england area in which I live now, is the impossibly high housing prices for youngsters.

@howto IMO changing the way we build our homes could in fact be a major internal benefit from Brexit, if only (as with so much of the potential positive ?'s) the 'right' people were in charge. Sustainable homes were just that - made from locally sourced sustainable materials focusing on environmentally friendly points systems. Not only does this boost internal trade within UK for tiles/bricks/stones/wood and cost less in carbon miles, but it also encourages us to be a leader in great housing standards. Frankly it will never happen because there was a 12% (IIRC) extra cost to the developers, a cost they didn't think would be recouped merely with the word "sustainable" added to the shiny brochure. In reality they want to not have to train builders to make better homes, change suppliers and potentially use up more land per home. Profit over health every time.

Labours leave/remain conundrum is very real. My constituency on the face of it is safeish Tory seat with a strong Leave vote BUT Bill Cash Jr stood as a UKIP representative in 2015 and did very well got them into third place from nowhere. People assumed he had taken the classic Tory voter but he himself said he did best with the disenfranchised Labour voter. UKIP also campaigned really hard on the behalf of Leave campaign around here only remain voice was the Government leaflet.

My Mp has gone full on No Deal which is supported by the Labour vote who I am not sure would swing behind voting for a Tory and more likely to not vote at all. He has completely ignored remainers which he could regret.

HS2 is also still a massive local issue which MP says he will still try and stop so he picked up quite a few votes off the back of that however; if the Tory’s manage to hang on until what is it 2022 HS2 could be well under way and any goodwill from that will have evaporated.

Personally I think if the question was deal versus remain, deal would win. Leaver won't vote remain, but some remainers will vote for a soft Brexit.

I think 2016 leavers voting remain is considerably more likely than 2016 remainers voting for any kind of Brexit. Perhaps I’m missing something?

Merkel is likely to support a reasonable request, but it is now debateable how much she would try to dissuade any country that seriously wants to veto

and throw her own citizens living in the UK under the no deal bus? It's not realistic for EU governments just to say their citizens can move elsewhere of the UK is a mess, they may not want to or be able to and they exercised their FOM rights in good faith.

Also they alienate all the remain voters in the UK - "they could have given us more time but didn't" narrative. Daniel Finkelstein said in the Times that if the EU plays a long game we will end up remaining. I can see that too.

The EU will agree an extension, they do not want to be responsible for no deal. I am not saying they will never run out of patience but a few businesses moaning about stockpiles isn't a good enough reason to push us over the cliff. Yet.

To be fair i've not seen the 'new' sustainable/carbon zero plans from the Tories (and why they've made new ones when the LD ones were fine and probably, knowing the Tories, covered more) but if Gove is in charge it will be can kicked. Like his plastics recycling. I'm guessing he's not into desalination plants either despite the news of future water shortages we face as an island...

I think 2016 leavers voting remain is considerably more likely than 2016 remainers voting for any kind of Brexit. Perhaps I’m missing something

I think the fact we disagree illustrates how close it could be, again.

Leavers will vote leave. Although there are a few who may well say that a soft Brexit isn't worth happening and we may as well remain.

Remainers will vote remain. But I think there are more than a few who will say the original referendum was to leave, we seem to have all this angst about having more than one referendum not being democratic and therefore some remainers will vote leave if the deal is soft Brexit.

Of course demographics have changed, younger people may vote remain but they may not if they feel a soft Brexit still safeguards most of their rights.

Those of you in Ireland (and any in the Netherlands?) - when you have been asked to vote again on EU issues (I know the issues had been resolved in most cases before being brought back) but have you had all this angst about democracy and the will of the people and asking the "same" question many times until you get the answer you want? Or is it just a British thing?

People assumed he had taken the classic Tory voter but he himself said he did best with the disenfranchised Labour voter

Id rather see the stats than take the word of someone who stood for UKIP tbh

Happy 80th birthday next week, GeistohneGrenzen ! 💐 🎂
Have a wonderful day

I read somewhere that rebuilding the NI border would be akin to rebuilding the Berlin Wall.

It was scandalous what 18 years of tory governments had done to our public services, and of course history is repeating itself again

Yes, as someone who joined the NHS as an employee during the Labour years, the change is marked and appalling. There is no getting away from the fact that the 'failure' of the NHS is deliberate policy and anyone who suggests otherwise is, frankly, either an idiot or a liar.

Happy 80th next week GeistohneGrenzen🎂🥂

It is too early over here to be on this thread but I just wanted to say that we all should be able to put our views forward, from those I think odd, looking at people who think Corbyn is a good idea, to those still positive about leaving and those who are very stressed by it.
Because others are going to think some of my views are plain wrong. We are never going to get out of the mess if we cannot at least listen and argue our case back.

Labours leave/remain conundrum is very real
I agree. Look at the numbers on the petition to deselect Yvette Cooper and the resurfacing of the house flipping allegations.

Thanks BigChoc Now I need to learn a language which can translate feeling nineteen inside (well most days, anyway) to feeling nineteen outside... perhaps more gardening would help...

Id rather see the stats than take the word of someone who stood for UKIP tbh

Results are here (Wikipedia link and there is certainly no indication that the Tory vote was erroded.

And thanks too dontcallmelen

Labour isn't one party, it has several very different sections. The labour voters in the poor northern towns l have worked in had different priorities to those in London where I once lived. It is trying to keep this disparate group together that I see as the challenge.

Havingtochange I live in Germany.
I can only report how the mood has changed over the last 3 years and what I am hearing from my social circle, work colleagues, our large trade union, local businesses, political analysts

It isn't just "a few businesses" - business says they want an end to this, so they can plan.
No Deal has been officially calculated as manageable

Many people feel indignant at what E27 expats are going through, but they are not useful "hostages"

• it just makes people even more disgusted with the UK govt and less willing to reward them for continued bad behaviour.

UK Remain voters don't get a vote in Germany and although people here feel sympathetic, they won't let fear of offending Remainers change German policy

So don't over-estimate how much Merkel is willing to push for an extension
If May doesn't come up with a believeable proposal, extension is no formality

May had better get serious in her talks with Corbyn and compromise until they agree a deal.

People in the Uk need to realise that No Deal is perfectly possible - and is a certainty if UK politicians refuse to compromise

Labours leave/remain conundrum is very real
I agree. Look at the numbers on the petition to deselect Yvette Cooper and the resurfacing of the house flipping allegations.

There is no mechanism to be able to deselect a sitting MP, Kate Hoey being an example

Labours leave/remain conundrum is very real

I saw sone interesting stats (that sadly were owned by the company sharing them, so don't have a copy) that showed if you break the Revoke 6MM petition signees down by postcode = constituency; those with the most revoke signatures were Labour seats, but those with the fewest signatures were also Labour seats.

Indeed this is open to much interpretation, but i think is indicative of the Labour conundrum

Singingbabooshka my comment on no dealers arguing they were being disenfranchised was in the context of the option being excluded on a PV with only WA or Remain being on the ballot. It doesn't matter why I, you or anyone else thinks they are being stupid it will be their arguement.