They're our representatives not delegates!!

[booboo57]

Ok. I have had enough shouting at the radio and television. I'm going to share this with you all. Sorry in advance if it offends.

We live in a representative democracy not a delegate one.

This is key to our current problems. Our MP's represent us, all of the people in their constituency, not just the people that voted for them. MP's party membership is an indication to us, the voters, of where they stand but should not come before representing us all.

MP's are not a delegate responding to the directions of the small number of party activists in their local association or club, they represent all people in the constituency.

MP's are not even the delegate of all the party voters in their constituency they are the representative of us all.

The referendum showed a majority for leave, but it was close, surely our representatives, who represent us all, should work together.

The Conservative party did not get a majority at the last election. All this guff about a mandate from the manifesto is not true as they did not get an overwhelming majority. Similarly the labour party did not get a majority either. What is the country saying? Work together to sort this out.
Talk about lions lead by donkeys!

Bang on. I've just heard a man on the local radio station saying we should reopen the mills and bakeries and make bread with grain bought from the 3rd world following a desired no deal Brexit. I really despair.

And Andrea Leadsome saying again and again that "The Government is elected."

It is not, even if it had a majority which it doesn't.

Governments are appointed on the basis they can command the House of Commons, which is elected. All of it.

Representing us all is what MPs are supposed, duty bound to do. Unfortunately lots of people seem to conflate them doing this with "doing what I want them to."

I think the really dangerous thing that is happening here is that the Tory right is defining anything short of a no deal exit as a 'betrayal of Brexit'. This is being defined as 'the will of the people'. It really, really isn't.

Remember back at the time of the referendum, how they went on and on and ON about how no deal was a very remote possibility, how we'd get a great deal from the EU, and we were really voting on soft Brexit versus Remain?? The context matters: there is no mandate for no deal.

I agree, but what about the MPs who aren't representing the interests of their constituents? Mine has never voted against the Tory whip, he has zero opinions except them trotted out at Conservative HQ, and he blocks anyone that points out errors in his statements.

It's all an absolute shit shower.

Sorry OP, i disagree with your conclusion - Labours job is that of the Official Opposition..... unless May wants a coalition Govt where Lab have ministerial positions?

MPs and Govt's have to do what they think is best for the country, in the fullness of time we then have a GE and can vote them in or out of office, this is our system.

What MPs or Govt should not be doing is basing the future of the country on a referendum held 3 years ago, that is subject to criminal proceedings & where serious illegality has already been proved.

I hope Labour will not support the Govt in anyway, if May cannot Govern, then she should call a GE.

In most places, constituencies are really divided. This is the problem with imposing a direct democratic election on a representative parliament, where the direct democratic result doesn't map onto the party politics. It raises a hell of a lot of questions about what 'representation' actually means.

The situation we have is a direct result of a vote that was split right down the middle.

"I hope Labour will not support the Govt in anyway, if May cannot Govern, then she should call a GE."

And what happens if the Tories win that GE under an ERG candidate?

And what happens if May doesn't call a GE and instead goes for no deal?

Labour's position has been clear from the start: they want a Customs Union and some dynamic single market alignment. It's actually quite a sensible compromise.

Sorry, that should read dynamic regulatory alignment!

This "split right down the middle" line is false and wrong, it implies there was a tie, or no result. Wrong, when asked, a majority of those who voted cast votes for Leave.

The situation we have now is a result of our representatives voting to allow a direct democratic exercise to determine our future within or outside the European Union and, having received the result of this exercise, some of those representative responding by placing every obstacle they can conceive in the way of to enact it.

downcasteyes

If the Tories win, then that's the democratic process! If she goes for no-deal, then she knows she has just condemned the tories to be out of power for a decade or more, so she won't.

Allowing the WA through with Labour support on the promise of a CU and SM alignment, cannot be assured, any future Govt can rip that bit up!

I heard Rory Stewart saying it could be written into uk law, which a majority tory govt could then rescind.

"This "split right down the middle" line is false and wrong, it implies there was a tie, or no result. Wrong, when asked, a majority of those who voted cast votes for Leave."

It was 48/52. Leave won. But not by a huge amount. I personally think the result needs to be respected in two ways. Firstly, despite voting Remain, and despite believing it is the wrong thing for the country in the long run, I do think we probably need to leave. However, I also think an extreme hard Brexit would not be respecting the balance of the vote - I don't think there's a mandate for that.

jas - that's the crux of it, isn't it? How can we creating an agreement that is sufficiently binding in the circumstances?

There was a vote and the ballot paper gave a choice of remaining a member of the EU or Leaving the European Union. It was therefore a vote not to remain a member of the EU.

There was nothing on the ballot one way or the other about customs unions, The Single Market, institutional structures such as the European Arrest Warrant, European Medicines Agency and Euratom.

Any suggestion that "Leave The EU" meant leave any and all institutions associated with the EU even when membership of the EU is not a condition of membership of those institutions, is a lie.

I honestly don't think a GE will help anything. What would be the manifesto for the Tories for example, they are completely split into several factions. They can't agree on a policy neither can Labour. Brexit is not a Party Political issue despite what the politicians say. May has been trying to keep the party together but should have been concentrating on the best deal for the country and bring together all MP's that could vote for that. Instead she has been held hostage by the DUP who are not known for their reasonable approach to compromise. They've not had a government in NI for months (?years). Time for government of national unity.

I think the really dangerous thing that is happening here is that the Tory right is defining anything short of a no deal exit as a 'betrayal of Brexit'. This is being defined as 'the will of the people'. It really, really isn't.

I agree with this, although it's not limited to the Tory right, it's all the hard line Brexiteers, they are trying to pretend that people voted for no deal, and any deal will be unacceptable to them.

This isn't true, it was never true, it's rewriting history to support their own arguments, no one said on thr leave side said at the time of the referendum this is what voting leave means, it means no deal, you'll love your jobs and have a much lower standard of living. And when the remain side said it they were shout down for scaremongering. Project feat they called it.

And now they are trying to pretend that yes yes the leave side did tell peoole this is what it meant and this is what people wanted.

It's really very dangerous.

The context matters: there is no mandate for no deal

This.

downcasteyes

Probably some sort of legally binding PV... their deal V remain but this in itself presents huge issues, both parties leaders campaigning for the 'deal but (many of) their MP's, membership and voters wanting something completely different!

Will be the same in any GE campaign.... its all a massive mess.

But tbh, if C & M reach agreement, expect a royal flypast of pigs in celebration.

Agree, op. Pisses me right off.

If "leave means leave" then what would be the problem with a confirmatory referendum? Leave will win again and everyone will just have to STFU. Right?!

The Will Of The People means the people cannot defy The People by changing their minds after three years.

One Person, One Vote, One Time.

MockerstheFeManist
The Will Of The People means the people cannot defy The People by changing their minds after three years

You've really not got the point of the thread have you?

If the MPs had do exactly what the majority said they would be delegates. That is not the type of democracy we live in.