Brexit and Poverty In The UK

[DioneTheDiabolist]

I am an unemployed single mother. I live in a very deprived area in an inner city. My family are classed as living in Absolute Poverty.

I voted Remain because I thought it would be better for me, my DC and my wider family. But I have looked at the Leave stats and it seems that many Leavers also come from poorer backgrounds.

What am I missing? Should I have voted Leave? Why would I be better off Leaving the EU?

I said a few weeks ago that the UK would crash out with No Deal , because it was unlikely that Theresa May’s deal would succeed.
No Deal at this point ,would be better than TM’s deal.

People voted not to make themselves better off but to make others poorer.

I think this aspect is widely missed and it helps explain why people like me were wrong about how quickly the mood would change.

{No Deal at this point ,would be better than TM’s deal.}

You can only say this if either you don't understand what 'no deal' will do to the UK or you are a masochist.
Although the effects that have been branded as 'project Fear' would not kick in immediately, over a few months most of them will happen and the UK will be financially unable to get itself out of the hole.

The point of a 'no deal' is that no one KNOWS what will actually happen as there are so many complicated and interrelated things that will fall apart, either gradually or quickly. Thus far there have been no signs of anything actually getting better for the UK and thus far the UK government has splashed out over £4 Billion in preparations and the UK hasn't even left yet.

What benefit do you think No Deal will bring areyoubeingserviced? How will it help UK citizens living in poverty?

I do think that a lot of people (subconsciously) looked at the ballot paper and basically ticked the one they liked best- EU or UK.

I really, seriously, genuinely would welcome a leave voter explaining why they voted for it. I really would. Never happens though. Leave voters just seem to flounce and huff instead.

I don't get it either.

{ Leave voters just seem to flounce and huff instead.}
But they 'won', that is all you need to know.

OP, the explanations of the remainers on here give an entirely different impression of why any leaver would want to leave the EU than is actually the case. The remain campaign fell into that trap too, and concentrated on economics and didn't appeal the heart of the leavers.

A decision to vote leave was a much more emotional decision and had a lot to do with the 'feeling' the voter had for the EU - left behind, ignored and their national identity being eroded for instance.
Many things are symbolic like fishing rights, we know that it's very small fry in the economic scheme of things but time and time again remainers just don't get it and you get the usual responses you have had so far.

What we don't get, is why people want to shaft the economy for the sake of flag waving. You can't eat national pride.

A decision to vote leave was a much more emotional decision and had a lot to do with the 'feeling' the voter had for the EU - left behind, ignored and their national identity being eroded for instance

Look, we get this but "feelings" don't pay the rent or put food in your kids mouths.
Left behind, ignored, national identity? are all things the UK govt has done and zilch to do with the EU.

I ve no particularly affiniti with the EU but until i hear sound and well researched reasons to leave that won't wreck manufacturing industry or cause financial services to leave the UK, i'd rather stick with the EU and fight for reform.

Agree Remain campaign was terrible and didn't address the root causes.

{Many things are symbolic like fishing rights, we know that it's very small fry in the economic scheme of things but time and time again remainers just don't get it and you get the usual responses you have had so far.}
With the irony that most fish caught by 'British' fishermen is sold to Europeans because the Brits don't like the varieties caught.

The point about being European AND British, or European and Italian, is the fact that the whole of the EU is your playground or workspace and you have rights to be anywhere you want.
If you want to be a miserable git in Heckmondwyke in a bedsit, fine, but don't take opportunities away from everyone else.

jas - we've been fighting for reform for 40 years. Enough is enough.
Many people who voted leave see local employers using already trained Europeans rather than training locals. They see others coming over willing to take min. wage where a local couldn't afford to and the wages staying stagnate. They see loads more lorries on the road as that part for the car being built here go back and forward 6 or 7 times across the channel. They see extremely well off land owners and the likes of cereal farmers racking in EU subsidies. They see all the fishing boats from their local harbours disappear.

The idea that we wouldn't have the standards in food, safety or environmentally when we leave the EU is just daft. Many of these were initiated by the UK in the first place. We pride ourselves with our insistence of keeping to the rules, it's one of the many problems we have had with EU regs in that many felt that we were the only ones actually following all the rules.

Leclerc - few of the OP's friends who voted leave will be thinking of the EU as their 'play ground' or be bemoaning the fact that their children might not be able to study in the EU!

few of the OP's friends who voted leave will be thinking of the EU as their 'play ground'

But it could and should be/have been.
That's entirely the fault of successive governments that have failed to promote language learning properly. The right to live and work elsewhere shouldn't be an abstract middle class concept.

Many of these were initiated by the UK in the first place.

Yes- rather proves the point that we've had positive impact within the EU. Will we have the same clout outside though? We may still have the same great ideas but as a stand-alone 65 million market (versus 500million as part of the EU) will we be able to impose our conditions on new trading partners?

Just because 'leave' voters have little imagination or motivation, other than destroying things, why should I suffer because of them?
I am totally hacked off with their negativity. It's always someone else's fault. Get your head out of your arse and do something positive.
If there is no work available near you, either create something, or move, it isn't actually difficult.

Song - our USP is our quality, so the Gov. would be daft to ignore that when doing trade deals.

These rights you talk of thought Song are way way down the list asperations for people near the bottom of the pile.

Le Clerc, I think you miss the point entirely. There is no lack of imagination or motivation within leave voters. What we were talking about is the question the OP posed about the poor and why they voted leave. Many people don't have the confidence of where withal to just move and get out of the rut they are in. It's got nothing to do with being a leaver. Most leavers I know are business owners, farmers or innovators in some way or another. We can see the opportunities out there and want to grab them with both hands.

If Leave damages the economy for a while the poor will be poorer

But the apparent inequality is enraging and everyone needs something / someone to blame - it won’t make it better

The elite will be fine

Interestingly double the leave voters I know too are business owners and for the most part self made, from the bottom-rung up to the top. I have respect for their business acumen but they all distinctly lack empathy.

I also don't think that the right to live and work elsewhere is an irrelevant 'aspiration'. It somewhat contradicts your comment about being entrepreneurial and grabbing opportunities where they arise. Why would those opportunities not arise in other EU countries and why not encourage those 'at the bottom of the pile' to see them and seize them?

Why would I be better off Leaving the EU?
Apologies if I’m wrong, but haven’t you been posting anti Brexit posts fairly regularly?
Surely you know why you think the UK is better in the EU?

few of the OP's friends who voted leave will be thinking of the EU as their 'play ground' or be bemoaning the fact that their children might not be able to study in.

Most of my friends voted Remain. My constituency overwhelmingly to remain, more than 70%. Our Sure Start centre, community hub and the local business park are all products of EU funding. The poverty, high crime and poor housing are the result of lack of investment and being ignored by our own government. That's when they're not outright demonising us.

That is why I asked my question here, because all the poor people I know IRL fear that leaving the EU will shaft us even further.

And while me and my neighbours and friends don't have a lot of money, we still strive and scrimp and scrape to help our DC fulfill their ambitions so that the EU and the world can be their playgrounds if that's what they want.

Yes, it's harder for us than it is for those with more money, so I'm asking how leaving the EU will make it easier and better for us.

{Yes, it's harder for us than it is for those with more money, so I'm asking how leaving the EU will make it easier and better for us.}

The simple answer is that it won't.
Of all the speeches made by those wanting to leave the EU, none have said HOW the UK can be more prosperous than it was, or made any suggestion about helping the poorer off, and neglected parts of the UK.
If there was any sign of plans to do this, rather than vague soundbites it might have been possible to take leaving seriously.

Song, we are generalising here, in that I am suggesting there are people who voted leave and see themselves as 'left behind and forgotten' . They are different people from the intrapreneurial ones, they are different people than the OP who is very conscious of giving her children the best chance she can.

The fact that many of the services and facilities you have in your area have been previously funded by the EU, doesn't mean they won't be funded in the future.
I am a Trustee of a local Development Trust. We certainly received funding in the past from EU sources but for the last 2 years we have applied for more and more funding for our projects from other sources and have been very successful. The fact that we can't get any EU funding now hasn't made any difference to our projects. In fact if anything, it has made it a heck of a lot easier as there are considerably fewer hurdles to jump and a whole lot less admin.