Anyone changed their minds

[heyyy]

Did anyone vote leave and now wishes they had voted remain?

Or voted Remain and think leaving is a good idea now?

I don't think no matter if your a leave or remain supporter the one thing we can agree on is that the leave process is an absolute mess.
It seems we are getting closer to another referendum but will it make any difference?
I have a scary picture I'm my head that has a no deal exit voted against, a referendum called and then the outcome is still leave. That leaves the uk in a worse place than we out now and still no solutions.

I know both remain and leave voters IRL and they all would vote as they did in the first referendum in there was another vote.

I want there to be a resolution soon but I think it's going to drag on for a while!!

So who are all those people in Calais trying to enter UK either via the tunnel or hiding in goods vehicle or in some cases trying to sail across the channel?

You are talking about tiny, tiny numbers of people. At the height of the migrant crisis there were some problems with the Channel Tunnel. I once got stuck at Calais for several hours on the Eurostar because I was on one of the first trains of the day when they discovered a migrant who had walked almost the full length of the tunnel overnight. This was back in 2015 and there has not been any significant disruption to Channel Tunnel services caused by migrants attempting to cross to the UK since then. (There is significant disruption to the Eurostar at the moment, but that is due to Brexit.)

There have always been stowaways in lorries and even planes. This has very little to do with the EU, although it is arguable that the EU's response to the migrant crisis was poor.

The fact remains that the overwhelming majority of the migrants who managed to cross the Mediterranean have not made it anywhere near the UK. Countries such as Italy and Greece were under a huge burden, being the first countries where the migrant boats made landfall. To get to the UK they then would have had to cross an entire continent and then make another dangerous sea crossing. That is why so few of them bothered and even fewer succeeded.

Please think about what you are saying for a minute. It is completely untrue to suggest that the UK has shouldered more than its fair share of the burden for refugees and asylum seekers. Turkey and Lebanon are playing host to literally millions of Syrian refugees.

UK Politics seems to concentrate on the negatives.

So does your entire post. You're not doing a very good job of selling Brexit to remainers.

Voted remain would still vote remain. We were never going to get a 'good deal'. Why would they do that it would encourage others to follow suit. Also where else would you leave a club/stopping but still get the benefits?
The campaign in 2016 was terrible lies lies lies. People have voted on immigration and some vague concept of sovereignty that no one has ever managed to explain what they really mean by. Having said that I do understand people's concerns but I also believe in the phrase 'cutting your nose off despite your face'
If we go back in time we have always blamed 'the foreigners'. Reading some of these posts just makes me realise how people don't know what they have voted for. Talking about illegal immigrants coming from Calais. That will probably get worse not improve. I recently heard a man being interviewed saying he voted to keep 'Syria's and Muslims out'. How does his vote count he doesn't know what he voted for. Also some people have voted themselves out of a job. I can only assume they believed the 'project fear' argument.

When we did vote leave. I originally thought that's the decision of the British public so it should be honoured and I hoped there would have been a cross party negotiations. But no it has been a shambles the people who caused it slithered of. It's been proven a terrible decision.

You're not doing a very good job of selling Brexit to remainers

Can't see many changing their vote regardless of who says what. That's why I am not convinced a second referendum would help.

Can't see many changing their vote regardless of who says what.

Well people certainly won't change their minds if even people who voted leave can't seem to identify any positive reasons for why we are doing this,

if even people who voted leave can't seem to identify any positive reasons for why we are doing this

The leave voters perceive benefits of leaving the EU. When they hear statements like "UK pays 50 million per day to EU for nothing" many of them believe it to be true.

Likewise when tabloid press in the run up to the referendum in 2016 blamed immigration for everything they believed that too.

Some may have believed the red bus and the 350 Million for NHS?

It is all about perception at the time of the vote. This is where the remain campaign got it wrong. They concentrated on the downsides of leaving the EU, but did not say a lot about the upsides of remaining in the EU.

Leave concentrated on the advantages of leaving the EU.

So you're saying that leavers perceive there to be some advantages, not that there actually are any.

You sound like a remainer trying to explain why people voted against their best interests.

{Leave concentrated on the advantages of leaving the EU.}

And are desperately trying to think of any 'up sides' that might be achievable.
So far the government is spending around 3 time the EU contribution trying to prepare, has said that increased red tape to be paid for will be around £13 Billion and offered a paltry £5.70 a year to some deprived areas as a 'bribe' to encourage the MPs.

So you're saying that leavers perceive there to be some advantages, not that there actually are any

People voted leave because they think the future will be better and people voted remain because they think the future will be worse. A bit like buying and selling gold on the stock market. Some think it will go down in value so they sell. Some think it will go up in value so they buy. Nobody can know for sure what exactly will happen in the future.

Not everyone has had the benefit of a higher education and gone on to be a Brain Surgeon, Barrister, Doctor, etc., but that does not reduce the significance of their vote.

Some from the less well off areas of UK might have had the mindset "well it surely can't get worse for me so I will vote leave and hope the future is better" My parents for example decided to vote leave as soon as the referendum was known to be going ahead. They did not even read the booklet that remain campaign sent out.

Gosh brexit must be such fun for someone with no skin in the game who enjoys winding others up. What a lovely little “academic” exercise that one can observe with a wry smile, knowing that one is above such concerns.

What our mansplainer forgets is that plenty of wealthy Tories in the South East voted Leave. They are not hard done by, but not all in the JR-M, Redwood league of being wealthy enough to shift their money out of the UK. I wonder what exactly will be in it for them?

And if we have a people's vote and the majority vote leave again,then what?

{people voted remain because they think the future will be worse}

I think people who voted Remain expected things to remain more or less the same, as in gradual improvements, roughly following the trend in Europe and having an influence on the way Europe is run.
This was outlined in the leaflet sent to all houses in the UK. what was written on it was not lies, but the truth is not over exciting but realistic. Osbornes comments about the UK economy faltering have come about but the timing was incorrect.

{Even JRM who seems to the most pro leave MP has acknowledged that it would take about 50 years for UK to feel the full benefit of Brexit.}
Comfortable in the knowledge he will be dead by then. There has been no indication of HOW the lives of UK citizens will be improved and over the last 3 years things have worsened. The Leave campaign were promising IMPROVEMENTS and it is difficult to see how endangering and trashing UK manufacturing and financial industry is going to make anything better.

{And if we have a people's vote and the majority vote leave again,then what?}
Easy, the UK leaves, as is being prepared for in Europe, and as it will be the majority vote everyone will be happy.

So you just like trying to wind people up then @MissedTheBoatAgain and mansplaining to the little women about politics and relationships/divorce? You spend an awful lot of time on here being antagonistic so you must be very bored and enjoy displaying your manly knowledge. Like a peacock really.

To be fair on Missed lots of the prolific posters on here are men I think.

{To be fair on Missed lots of the prolific posters on here are men I think.}

Mumsnet, By parents for parents.
Your point being?

So how do they end up in UK? What happened to the EU requirement that the first EU country they arrive in shall deal with them

But they don't end up in the UK. They are mainly in Germany, Italy, Malta (and Jordan). The ones hanging around Calais are not refugees, they are wannabe illegal immigrants.

I can't believe there is anyone dense enough to think that in return for deals, Africa, China, India etc won't be given visa quotas.

What do you think Theresa May was prancing around in Africa for? Do you think she just fancied a little holiday? Likes a little boogie? 😂

Do you think these deals will be given to the UK just like that, nothing more in it for the countries involved? Britain isn't an empire anymore you know and isn't exactly a hive of industry is it, you don't have the status and clout you think you have.

UK has always had control over its borders, didn't exercise those controls because immigrants are the most convenient scapegoat for shit government policies aren't they?

Added to that, anyone with the most basic knowledge of Economics should at least be aware that immigrants contribution here is large, and necessary. How do you think will your pensions will be paid; the Sky Fairy?

Trade talks with India, one of the easiest in history or whatever the cobblers was spouted, suddenly went rather quiet when they said, how about 100,000 visas.

FFS

How on EARTH can anyone look at the current facts and still vote remain?!?!?!?!

Immigration - They won't send all those foreign people back home you know... & it's INTERNATIONAL law that protects the rights of Refugees.

Business / finance - how much clearer to you need it to be?!?! It's a fucking financial disaster wherever way you look at it.

Stop being stubborn dicks and wake the fuck up!!! 😳😢😡

Arrrrrrrghhh!!!! 🙄🙄🙄🙄

Errr meant still vote LEAVE (obvs)

So let me get this straight, JRM who's an ardent supporter of leave doesn't see improvements happening for 50 years and that is meant to be worth it? Honestly I'd be lucky to see the 50 years out, but if that's true it's a heck of a saddle for the next generation to take on. Most of their working lives in many cases. And also Missedtheboat you talk about things were supposed to go bad after the vote. We haven't left yet and lots of industry are leaving. Several car manufacturers already. The EU are probably rubbing their hands with glee at the possibility of taking in these companies.

We cannot compete with 27 countries in terms of trade. Whilst we were sitting pretty in the EU we can't for one moment truly believe that we have stronger spending power than all these countries put together? They will never give us a better deal or if they did, the EU would untangle in front of us and all the other countries would want out.

{We cannot compete with 27 countries in terms of trade. }
Competing with the EU27 isn't reall the issue, we can trade on equal terms with the EU. The much bigger issue, which is seriously worrying the EU27 is the manufacturing capabilities of China and other Asian countries.
Any business in the UK now will have to compete with China.
The UK is probably losing the manufacture of say 1 Million cars a year. There is one city in China producing 24 Million cars and there are plenty more. They also have the upcoming market to buy them too, whereas western Europe is pretty well saturated.
Garments made in Bangladesh, would UK workers be happy with £10 a week wages? Yes it is easy to complain about the EU and the tariffs but by keeping them countries in the EU have a reasonably level playing field as the cost of living is broadly similar across the EU, certainly compared to Bangladesh /India/China etc, often with their lower standards of worker rights.

We were told this was a once in a lifetime vote. I can’t honestly say I was happy with everything the EU stands for, so I voted leave. I would vote the same again if it was another ‘once in a lifetime vote’ but if the government were to ‘commit’ to a vote say, every 10 years, I might vote remain at this point. For everyone saying we should have a 2nd referendum now because we are better informed now as to what Brexit actually means, I think people would be more willing to accept that if it wasn’t their final chance to have a say.