As we voted to leave, and we cannot really have another referendum...

[Romanov]

As we voted to leave, and we cannot really have another referendum... but maybe we have an early vote to see if we want to rejoin, and skip the middle bit?

I voted to remain, but I don't think we can have another referendum as it would be be well let's keep going until we get what we want... but this could work

No it won’t.

If the WA fails tonight the UK should revoke. This humiliation has to stop.

'If the WA fails tonight the UK should revoke. This humiliation has to stop.'

It's the only sane way forward. Of course that probably means it won't happen

But it wouldn't be the same question asked. It would be an informed vote on the WA or remain, I'd hope. People didn't necessarily realise the clusterfuck they were voting for with leave, so now it's been clearly demonstrated to the electorate at large what a vote for leave is, it's now an informed vote following the provision of hard evidence.

OP - the flaw in your argument is that if the UK still wants to leave, you can a 1000 referendums and the end result will always be the same.

In much the same way that in the 80s the Cons won every election we had and in the 90s Lab won 3 in a row.

It is the people that would make the final decision, not politicians and that can only be correct, given where we are.

I doubt there will be another referendum. It's too problematic; disagreement over the form of the question, disagreement over the timing, disagreement over the weight given to the result in conjunction with the previous referendums (da?). And, ultimately, it's one-sided: very few leave voters are asking for another vote, so it comes across as partisan (or whatever the correct word is here).

But I do think that the continued pressure for a new referendum will be used as a kind of temperature gauge on public opinion for remaining. And I believe that public opinion will gradually shift in that direction over time. It's just going to take years rather than months.

My total uneducated guess view is that May will run the clock down, with maybe one more go at getting her WA through, which will fail. Then we will enter an elongated period of extensions to article 50, in chunks of a year or two at a time, followed eventually by a withdrawal of it in about 2030. Coming out with no deal is looking increasingly unlikely, I think. The parliamentary will for it appears to be shrinking.

Whatever noises they are all making, everyone concerned politically May, Corbyn, Johnson, Rees-Mogg, Baker, Cox, the EU seem to be collaborating on kicking this can down the road, because no one wants to be near it when it opens. (Even those that say they do.) But eventually, they'll all get tired of kicking it because there'll be bigger and more pressing cans to boot around. AI and automation, primarily.

The other issue at the moment is that May, Corbyn and Cable are all highly ineffective leaders. But they can only go on for so long. I have a suspicion they'll all be gone by the end of this year. Fresh leadership might shift the dialogue on this stuff a bit, maybe.

Should we wish to rejoin the EU, we would have to apply and wait to see what terms we're offered, if any at all. We can't simply vote ourselves back in!

When a democracy cannot change its mind it ceases to be a democracy!

If we leave and then rejoin, we do so on far worse terms than we currently enjoy. No rebate, limited veto, probably joining schengen and the euro.

If we remain, we continue to enjoy all of those benefits!

If there is a 2nd ref, we should talk about it in terms of "informed consent". Anyone claiming they knew what they voted for is a fibber! They knew what they wanted to vote for but not what they'd get.

If the nation decides to vote out again, then we deserve everything we get.

If we vote to remain, that is now the will of the people.

“We” didn’t vote to leave. The Government seems desperate not to “betray” the 17m who voted leave at ANY cost but the rest of us (45-50m) have to live with a shit storm we didn’t vote for?

You’d think given how close the referendum result was the govt might have gone for a compromise “softer” Brexit instead of their ridiculous red lines.

The Government seems desperate not to “betray” the 17m who voted leave at ANY cost but the rest of us (45-50m) have to live with a shit storm we didn’t vote for?

If 17m voted to leave, that would have been out voted if the 45-50m had actually voted?

Remain votes 16,141,241, not 45-50

That twaddle May came out with the other day "why should any of those people who voted for the first time in the referendum ever vote again if we don't leave"...

Why should any of the millions of us who voted to remain, and vote at every EU, local and general election, are engaged, communicate with our MPs and councillors, join groups, take action, cared before the referendum and will still care long after it... why should any of us vote again now it's been made so very clear to us that we don't count? Why do people who only cared enough to get off their arses and vote once in their lives matter so much more?

Quite, icannotremember

If we leave and we’re to have a vote about rejoining - I would vote against rejoining.

Well that’s my thoughts at this time.
I do not want to be part of the euro or schengen.

I do however want to remain in then EU with the membership we have at the moment.

I do not want a people’s vote.

I do want PM to revoke and I feel that this is the only moral and right thing for her to do - which means it’s very unlikely to happen

@romanov many people were not eligible to vote.

They could vote in general elections but not this.

leave and hurry up FGS

General election coming.

May was never an authority (as PM or leading us out of Europe) as she was firmly a Remainer until June 2016. Shit show all round.

I'm just exasperated at the waste of parliamentary time on all of this.

You’d think given how close the referendum result was the govt might have gone for a compromise “softer” Brexit instead of their ridiculous red lines

Exactly. That was what happened in Norway. They narrowly voted not to join, so the compromise was the EEA. We could have done the same, in reverse. It could yet happen.

A Tory MP was on Radio 4 just now saying that if the deal didn't get through the only sensible course of action in his mind was asking for an extension and a GE in the hope that a government would get an overall majority. He said that could be Labour although as a Tory he naturally hoped not. He said that parliament could not go on in this way. And he's right, the country is governing itself at the moment.

I really don't think May was a firm remainer. She hates immigration. I think she just came down on the side of remain because of the economic advantages. But it was a hold her nose and vote remain scenario.

And I don't think she should have even triggered Art 50 until the problems in NI had been resolved. How can you start a process like Brexit when a part of your country doesn't even have a government? And she claims to be a unionist!

I don't think she was a firm Remainer either. I think it's something she'd never given much thought to. She's a firm, put the Tory party first person, though.

A referendum with No Deal as an option is not a referendum I want to have.

God no. That would be economic suicide.

Very true icannotremember

Unlike in a GE, where the losing side still are represented in Parliament, 16m voters are told by May to fuck off .

Also, pee'd off hearing the "British People voted bla bla bla" they didn't, a minority of the British people did.

If parliament can't come to an agreement on how to proceed, then what other options are there, other than a second referendum or a general election?

I don't believe that a GE is in the country's interests at the moment, partly because we could very easily end up in the same situation, with no party having a majority.

So I think we need another referendum to clarify what happens. But I don't think it should be an in/out choice. There should be three options: TM's deal, no deal or revoke, with voters ordering these by preference. If any single option gets a majority we should go with that. If not, then we go for the option with the highest number of number 1 and 2 preferences combined.

There is no good way out of this situation now. Bad times.

Dropping in so that I can read the live comments during the vote. I am convinced that we are going to crash out with No Deal.