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Brexit

Brexit - Savings and finance

16 replies

HowtoPrepare · 08/02/2019 10:10

Has anyone got any advice for how to prepare for different scenarios? For example - extra cash, Euro account, dollars, savings.

OP posts:
cherin · 08/02/2019 11:54
  1. Transferwise multi currency account. Sounds unpatriotic but we moved some money in euro and dollars already months ago. We DO have family and expenses abroad and don’t want to have too much trouble or commission, not pay 1£ for 1€ if I possibly can;
  2. my eldest had a child trust fund, which was invested in some obscure and uncontrollable fund who’s (upon investigation) is already losing money. In normal times it’s good to keep on putting those 100£/month and buying more units...but he’s less than 3years from banking in, and if market plunges it all goes down, even “balanced” funds. So I’ve moved to to a junior Isa which gives 3.5%
cherin · 08/02/2019 12:01

if one is close to pension, though, it can be very sad...

wherearemychickens · 08/02/2019 12:47

I've just looked at Transferwise - my worry about that if the SHTF is that it's regulated by the FCA, and the money is kept in a UK Barclays bank account. If we get into runs on banks territory, what's to stop those accounts from being frozen?

namechangedforanon · 08/02/2019 12:48

Following

namechangedforanon · 08/02/2019 12:49

I'm thinking of buying cash euros just in case 🤣

Miljah · 08/02/2019 13:00

I feel a bit paralysed by it, tbh.

We are late 50s so with reduced chances of making up our losses.

cherin · 08/02/2019 13:27

Transferwise offers bank accounts abroad. The one in euro is in a German bank with a German sort code etc...the one in the USA similar thing...

cherin · 08/02/2019 13:39

(I’m not suggesting any particular company, or anything that would be illegal, I honestly think that nobody should worry about this....but it’s clearly undoubtable that hard Brexit would make the life of a family like mine, with feet in different countries, much more complex, and it’s possible that some of the money transfers between counties would not be as easy or cheap as they are now, at least for a period)

cherin · 08/02/2019 13:43

Countries, not counties.
This phone is playing funny today

Anyway. My aunties was scr+wed by Chavez after working 40-50 years in Venezuela. All of her savings in dollars frozen, her pension wiped out by inflation, she survived the last years of her life back in EU thanks to a flat she bought, and taking lodgers...its difficult as an individual not to be influenced by this, even if logic tells you the circumstances can’t be compared...

HowtoPrepare · 08/02/2019 18:15

Paralysed is a good word. It is hard to know what to do. The thing is that Venezuela used to be stable. Pretty scary. I hope it all sorts itself out.

Thanks for the advice. Any more ideas very welcome.

OP posts:
xebobfromUS · 11/02/2019 05:36

I don't know how prevalent they are in the U.K as a whole but you might want to consider having an account at a credit union.

From Wikipedia;

" A credit union is a member-owned financial cooperative, controlled by its members and operated on the principle of people helping people, providing its members credit at competitive rates as well as other financial services.

Worldwide, credit union systems vary significantly in terms of total assets and average institution asset size, ranging from volunteer operations with a handful of members to institutions with assets worth several billion U.S. dollars and hundreds of thousands of members. Credit unions operate alongside other mutuals and cooperatives engaging in cooperative banking, such as building societies.

"Natural-person credit unions" (also called "retail credit unions" or "consumer credit unions") serve individuals, as distinguished from "corporate credit unions", which serve other credit unions.

Credit unions in the US had five times lower failure rate than other banks during the financial crisis of 2007-2008 and more than doubled lending to small businesses between 2008 and 2016, from $30 billion to $60 billion, while lending to small businesses overall during the same period declined by around $100 billion. Public trust in credit unions stands at 60%, compared to 30% for big banks. Furthermore, small businesses are eighty percent less likely to be dissatisfied with a credit union than with a big bank.

Differences from other financial institutions
Credit unions differ from banks and other financial institutions in that those who have accounts in the credit union are its members and owners, and they elect their board of directors in a one-person-one-vote system regardless of their amount invested. Credit unions see themselves as different from mainstream banks, with a mission to be "community-oriented" and "serve people, not profit".

Credit unions offer many of the same financial services as banks but often use different terminology. Typical services include share accounts (savings accounts), share draft accounts (checking accounts), credit cards, share term certificates (certificates of deposit), and online banking. Normally, only a member of a credit union may deposit or borrow money. Surveys of customers at banks and credit unions have consistently shown significantly higher customer satisfaction rates with the quality of service at credit unions. Credit unions have historically claimed to provide superior member service and to be committed to helping members improve their financial situation. In the context of financial inclusion, credit unions claim to provide a broader range of loan and savings products at a much cheaper cost to their members than do most microfinance institutions.

Not-for-profit status
In the credit union context, "not-for-profit" must be distinguished from a charity. Credit unions are "not-for-profit" because their purpose is to serve their members rather than to maximize profits, so unlike charities and the like, credit unions do not rely on donations and are financial institutions that must make what is, in economic terms, a small profit (i.e., in non-profit accounting terms, a "surplus") to remain in existence. According to the World Council of Credit Unions (WOCCU), a credit union's revenues (from loans and investments) must exceed its operating expenses and dividends (interest paid on deposits) in order to maintain capital and solvency.

In the United States, credit unions incorporated and operating under a state credit union law are tax-exempt under Section 501(c)(14)(A). Federal credit unions organized and operated in accordance with the Federal Credit Union Act are tax-exempt under Section 501(c)(1).

Global presence

According to the World Council of Credit Unions (WOCCU), at the end of 2014 there were 57,480 credit unions in 105 countries. Collectively they served 217.4 million members and oversaw US$1.79 trillion in assets. WOCCU does not include data from cooperative banks, so, for example, some countries generally seen as the pioneers of credit unionism, such as Germany, France, the Netherlands, and Italy, are not always included in their data. The European Association of Co-operative Banks reported 38 million members in those four countries at the end of 2010.

The countries with the most credit union activity are highly diverse. According to WOCCU, the countries with the greatest number of credit union members were the United States (101 million), India (20 million), Canada (10 million), Brazil (6.0 million), South Korea (5.7 million), Philippines (5.4 million), Kenya and Mexico (5.1 million each), Ecuador (4.8 million), Australia (4.5 million), Thailand (4.1 million), Colombia (3.6 million), and Ireland (3.3 million).

The countries with the highest percentage of credit union members in the economically active population were Barbados (82%), Ireland (75%), Grenada (72%), Trinidad & Tobago (68%), Belize and St. Lucia (67% each), St. Kitts & Nevis (58%), Jamaica (53% each), Antigua and Barbuda (49%), the United States (48%), Ecuador (47%), and Canada (43%). Several African and Latin American countries also had high credit union membership rates, as did Australia and South Korea. The average percentage for all countries considered in the report was 8.2%. Credit unions were launched in Poland in 1992; as of 2012 there were 2,000 credit union branches there with 2.2 million members.

History

Friedrich Wilhelm Raiffeisen founded the first rural credit unions in Germany.

Modern credit union history dates from 1852, when Franz Hermann Schulze-Delitzsch consolidated the learning from two pilot projects, one in Eilenburg and the other in Delitzsch in the Kingdom of Saxony into what are generally recognized as the first credit unions in the world. He went on to develop a highly successful urban credit union system. In 1864 Friedrich Wilhelm Raiffeisen founded the first rural credit union in Heddesdorf (now part of Neuwied) in Germany. By the time of Raiffeisen's death in 1888, credit unions had spread to Italy, France, the Netherlands, England, Austria, and other nations.

The first credit union in North America, the Caisse Populaire de Lévis in Quebec, Canada, began operations on January 23, 1901 with a 10-cent deposit. Founder Alphonse Desjardins, a reporter in the Canadian parliament, was moved to take up his mission in 1897 when he learned of a Montrealer who had been ordered by the court to pay nearly C$5,000 in interest on a loan of $150 from a moneylender. Drawing extensively on European precedents, Desjardins developed a unique parish-based model for Quebec: the caisse populaire.

In the United States, St. Mary's Bank Credit Union of Manchester, New Hampshire, was the first credit union. Assisted by a personal visit from Desjardins, St. Mary's was founded by French-speaking immigrants to Manchester from Quebec on November 24, 1908. Several Little Canadas throughout New England formed similar credit unions, often out of necessity, as Anglo-American banks frequently rejected Franco-American loans. America's Credit Union Museum now occupies the location of the home from which St. Mary's Bank Credit Union first operated. In November 1910 the Woman's Educational and Industrial Union set up the Industrial Credit Union, modeled on the Desjardins credit unions it was the first non-faith-based community credit union serving all people in the greater Boston area. The oldest statewide credit union in the United States was established in 1913. The St. Mary's Bank Credit Union serves any resident of the Commonwealth of Massachusetts.

After being promoted by the Catholic Church in the 1940s to assist the poor in Latin America, credit unions expanded rapidly during the 1950s and 1960s, especially in Bolivia, Costa Rica, the Dominican Republic, Honduras, and Peru. The Regional Confederation of Latin American Credit Unions (COLAC) was formed and with funding by the Inter-American Development Bank credit unions in the regions grew rapidly throughout the 1970s and into the early 1980s. By 1988 COLAC credit unions represented 4 million members across 17 countries with a loan portfolio of circa half a billion US dollars. However, from the late 1970s onwards many Latin American credit unions struggled with inflation, stagnating membership, and serious loan recovery problems. In the 1980s donor agencies such as USAID attempted to rehabilitate Latin American credit unions by providing technical assistance and focusing credit unions' efforts on mobilising deposits from the local population. In 1987, the regional financial crisis caused a run on credit unions. Significant withdrawals and high default rates caused liquidity problems for many credit unions in the region.

Stability and risks
Credit unions and banks in most jurisdictions are legally required to maintain a reserve requirement of assets to liabilities. If a credit union or traditional bank is unable to maintain positive cash flow and/or is forced to declare insolvency, its assets are distributed to creditors (including depositors) in order of seniority according to bankruptcy law. If the total deposits exceed the assets remaining after more senior creditors are paid, all depositors will lose some or all of their initial deposits. However, most jurisdictions have deposit insurance that promises to make depositors whole up to a maximum insurable account level. In the aftermath of the financial crisis of 2007–2008, there was a dramatic increase in the number of bank failures but not in the number of credit union failures, and in 2017, all depositors at failed credit unions were fully covered by deposit insurance, but depositors at a failed traditional bank were not covered by deposit insurance.

Corporate
Main article: Corporate credit union
Credit unions as such provide service only to individual consumers. Corporate credit unions (also known as central credit unions in Canada) provide service to credit unions, with operational support, funds clearing tasks, and product and service delivery.

Leagues and associations
Credit unions often form cooperatives among themselves to provide services to members. A credit union service organization (CUSO) is generally a for-profit subsidiary of one or more credit unions formed for this purpose. For example, CO-OP Financial Services, the largest credit-union-owned interbank network in the United States, provides an ATM network and shared branching services to credit unions. Other examples of cooperatives among credit unions include credit counseling services as well as insurance and investment services.

State credit union leagues can partner with outside organizations to promote initiatives for credit unions or customers. For example, the Indiana Credit Union League sponsors an initiative called "Ignite", which is used to encourage innovation in the credit union industry, with the Filene Research Institute.

The National Association of Federally-Insured Credit Unions (NAFCU)is a national trade association for all state and federally-chartered credit unions. Based outside of Washington, D.C., NAFCU's mission is to provide all credit unions with federal advocacy, compliance assistance, and education.

The World Council of Credit Unions (WOCCU) is both a trade association for credit unions worldwide and a development agency. The WOCCU's mission is to "assist its members and potential members to organize, expand, improve and integrate credit unions and related institutions as effective instruments for the economic and social development of all people".

The Credit Union National Association (CUNA) is a national trade association for both state- and federally chartered credit unions located in the United States. The National Credit Union Foundation is the primary charitable arm of the United States' credit union movement and an affiliate of CUNA.

Deposit insurance
In the United States, federal credit unions are chartered by and overseen by the National Credit Union Administration (NCUA), which also provides deposit insurance similar to the manner in which the Federal Deposit Insurance Corporation (FDIC) provides deposit insurance to banks. State-chartered credit unions are overseen by the state's financial regulatory agency and may, but are not required to, obtain deposit insurance. Because of problems with bank failures in the past, no state provides deposit insurance and as such there are two primary sources for depository insurance – the NCUA and American Share Insurance (ASI), a private insurer based in Ohio.

In Canada, most credit unions are provincially incorporated and regulated, with deposit insurance provided by a provincial Crown corporation. For example, in Ontario, up to $250,000 of coverage is provided through the Deposit Insurance Corporation of Ontario. ".

I don't want to sound too alarmist but here in the U.S. there are certain
legal clauses which the traditional banks can employ in that if need be, they can seize your bank accounts in order to try to stay solvent. Legally then, that money belongs to them and not you.

There are no such clauses with regard to credit unions, also they tend to shy away from trading in exotic financial instruments and are more like what traditional banks use to be.

The big banks can sometimes offer more services than a credit union can provide. So you might have a rather minimal amount in a big bank but the majority of your money in a credit union so that you can enjoy the advantages of both.

xebobfromUS · 11/02/2019 05:52

One thing I learned from a movie that might aide in your decision making is this: If you view yourself as flawed then naturally you might view any decision you make as flawed since according to your own reasoning the source of the decision is flawed.

If you view yourself as perfect then when it comes to decision making you remove a lot of the self-doubt and anxiety that can affect your ability to choose the best path for yourself.

RollerJed · 11/02/2019 06:01

Could you not just have linked to wiki @xebobfromUS 🙄

We have some money still in the UK, but think we'll keep it there now. We moved most out last year year watching the exchange rate for AUD and EUR so feel ok about it.

xebobfromUS · 11/02/2019 06:15

Roller

I am afraid I am not very good at that.

I do wish people were not having to go through all of this. Sometimes you do have to experience hardship, pain, difficulty, etc to get something you want but there needs to be some kind of prize for all that suffering you put yourself through.

I just don't see the prize that the U.K. is going to get for leaving the EU.

cherin · 11/02/2019 08:00

I suspect the equivalent U.K. form would be Coop bank or building societies, of which there’s none left that operates purely as a building society but are all controlled with the same rule of banks?
It’s worth noting here that the cover for bank savings is 85k per person per bank. If you are lucky enough to have more than this in saving, it’s worth spreading them between different institutions...

Tidy2018 · 11/02/2019 09:19

If you spread your money, check which banks and investments are linkedunder an umbrella financial institution.

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