Westminstenders: Waiting for Sanity

[RedToothBrush]

We could be waiting a long time, but that's what we have to wait for as that's what the EU is waiting for.

The EU has requested we expand on our plans for 'alternative arrangements' with regard to the backstop.

We need to do so before the next HoC vote on 14th Feb. The EU see no point in shifting their position before than. And the UK will struggle to provide the info the EU want before then. So there is now some doubt as to whether the vote will go ahead as planned.

About a third of the Cabinet now believe that Brexit will have to be delayed due to legislation not being ready for exit date. However we don't have power over this and we might still exit without it.

There is no Brexit related business next week in the HoC to prevent pesky amendments. The recess has been cancelled but MPs have been told its OK to go on their ski holidays so it's just a PR stunt.

Meanwhile No Deal is in full effect as businesses trigger their exit strategy in the absence of certainty. No Deal is reality for many even if we do have a last minute deal...

We are all about to get poorer. As that's what we voted for.

Missbel do you think the current GCSE MFL curriculum (the one graded 1-9) is an improvement or not? I have very mixed feelings about it.

I don't know anything about the new GCSEs but I would say that even "back in the day" grammar wasn't necessarily very well taught. My DH is 58 and I'm 54 and I was taught grammar "properly" (at primary school) but he wasn't. To this day my grammar knowledge is better than his, and he's a translator lol.

My kids (in normal French schools) learnt French grammar from the age of 5/6 and also did Latin at secondary school and it definitely helps - DS (who's no linguist) finds German grammar very easy.

I think the GCSE is an improvement because it’s not all just about learning by rote something anymore. You need to be able to actually have a bit of mastery if the language (eg due to the translation part).
The way the notation is done isn’t, imo, making any difference.

The teaching of grammar in UK Primary Schools has been back in a big way since the late nineties and obviously the KS2 SPaG test is now the stuff of legend. Fronted adverbials anyone? You obviously need to scroll through for the harder questions.
assets.publishing.service.gov.uk/government/uploads/system/uploads/attachment_data/file/709997/STA187970e_2018_ks2_English_GPS_Paper1_questions.pdf.pdf

That's interestingj Queenie. Do you think the speaking element is improved?

@Peregrina I think it's time for us all, Leavers and Remainers, to become less entrenched in our positions, though. Whatever happens next, we need to all look after each other. Letting the hate and resentment continue will poison us all and our children. And while we are busy hating and fighting each other, the Tories will continue to make life even shitter for the poor and vulnerable.

I want to be able to go back to having conversations with people without thinking, "Which way would you have voted?"

Me too! For. It’s nearly a survival thing. Am I, as a European, ‘safe’ in engaging in anything other than platitudes with person?
It has changed everything in the way I relate to people.

It’s even harder with my leave and conservative voting PILs. I didn’t use to talk a lot about politics before anyway. Now I avoid any proper conversations. And I certainly dint wanted to hear about any silverlining on the situation.

For what I can see with dc1, thé speaking part is very much the same (he did his French GCSE last year, the first one in the new system)

Morning all. I've finally caught up and now off to make leek and potato soup cry

Thanks Queenie just wondered if the extended resources were helping. I am doing a lot of work with DGD1 on tenses, but she had very poor teaching last year. The recruitment and retention crisis is just awful. We saw it coming in LAs years ago and tried to put strategies in place, but Brexit will make it so much worse.

bubble I agree with you re not hating each other and realising that everyone voted for good reasons to leave or stay.

But I am struggling to accept that I shouod have to confort MIL because “things are so hard and I didn’t realise it wouod be so complicated” etc.... whilst she is refusing to acceptbthathings are bloody hard me too, as an EU citizen. I wouod even go as far as saying that actually it’s harder because not only do I have to contend with the stress of not knowing, the mess etc... that she has (the financial risk that me and H have but she doesn’t as she is retired) but I also have to deal with the fact I have become an immigrant that has been told again and again that isn’t welcomed in the country.

So YY to the fact it’s time to move in from very entrentched positions (which I dont think will change until the agreement, whatever it is, is found).
But some compassion from BOTH SIDES would be welcome.
Atm Leavers are still in full attack mode. No wonder Remainers are answering back, bitting.

Letting the hate and resentment continue will poison us all and our children.

While true, I can't see any version of the future where Brexiteers and Remainers hold hands and skip into the sunset. Like the referendum itself, it's a binary choice. Hard to see how there could be any reconciliation when even now we're hearing Brexiteers being allowed to tell the nation that whatever comes "it's all worth it".

Part of the genius of the GFA was both sides got something they wanted. Unless someone can explain how that can happen with Brexit, one side will resent the other, and if that gets passed down the generations - even unconsciously - then it will.

I can’t quite comment on ressources etc..
Dc1 is bilingual and, just like you, I had put things in place much before Brexit etc... so he could learn the grammar, tenses etc...
So he hasn’t been that affected by it all.

What I can say is that the gap between GCSE and Alevel is still very big. Unless you have a really good level atvGCSE, I dint think you ca;cope with Alevel tbh.

Yes I am sure that is true Queenie. It is such a shame because poor teaching at GCSE will take out A level for those without the help at home.
The only thing is that we always used to say that a recession was good for teacher recruitment. Maybe that should go on the Brexit Good News thread. 😨

The teaching of grammar in UK Primary Schools has been back in a big way since the late nineties and obviously the KS2 SPaG test is now the stuff of legend. Fronted adverbials anyone? You obviously need to scroll through for the harder questions.

I can attest to this. I have an English degree and an MA in a humanities subject and my 6yo dd comes out with grammatical terms I have never heard of. We just weren't taught it when I was a kid. Now I do feel it's maybe a little over the top if anything and sometimes comes at the expense of simply learning to love using language.

These cartoons from today's Guardian and the Telegraph are brilliant.

Re languages: the fact that I did Latin to Higher really helped not just my French (and later Russian) but also my English

I was one of the first of those that stopped learning English grammar at school so learning about gerunds and gerundives, ablative and normative in my Latin classes, really helped my English (that and the fact that my mum was an English teacher who didn't tolerate bad grammar ).

Bubblewire - you're absolutely right. We do need to work together for the common good. Which is why I am redoubling my efforts in support of Scottish independence

Fronted adverbials anyone?

It seems like grammar as taught in the UK is now very different to the grammar knowledge required for MFL learning, where understand of verb tenses, cases and subject/object is most important.

What I can say is that the gap between GCSE and Alevel is still very big

This is the key problem for UK MFL teaching, which prevents the vast majority of students from doing any MFL learning post-GCSE. There is no route for non-linguists to continue language education to 18 and beyond.

@QueenieInFrance yes, it IS harder for you and my heart breaks for every EU citizen in this country who is wondering WTF is going to happen to them. No wonder you find the situation with your MIL difficult.

My ds1 (10) knows more about grammar than I do.

Well clearly the grammar that needs to be emphasised for the teaching of the two languages is different. It is the job of MFL teachers to do that. However the fact that children come in from primary with a good grounding in English grammar should help. I did a lot of work on KS 2/3 transition in my time and getting secondary teachers to focus on what the children actually knew was often something of a challenge.

Not that I think the teaching of fronted adverbials is important. I think it is wank.

My ds1 (10) knows more about grammar than I do.

Is it useful grammar, though? Because knowing what a "fronted adverbial" is doesn't help MFL learning. Correct me if I am wrong but from what I've seen modern UK grammar teaching seems to have a quite different aim versus MFL grammar teaching - it teaches form not function.