Is the EU undemocratic?

[Yogurty]

I posted this in Chat, but then remembered this topic, and thought it would be better to ask here.

I have a question: why do some people believe that the EU is undemocratic?

The EU being an undemocratic, unaccountable entity to which the UK has ceded power seems to be a fairly common reason for voting leave but I've never come across a clear, evidence-based explanation for this.

Each member country elects a number of it's own MEPs to sit in Brussels. There is an EC council 5 I think, who have been nominated by others who are the 'central thoughts' who deliberate what new or amended laws/treaties might be useful. They do not have the power to push anything through but their ideas are debated among the MEPs. The MEPs vote for a new 'rule' after their debate. This is taken to the respective countries and if they are happy it gets passed. If not then there is a possibility of adding to the debate and rethink, or a possibility of SOME vetos/local amendments.
Thus it is pretty democratic and no one has an outright say in a particular law. Actual details may vary but the will of the majority of the EU is taken into account.

Having MEPs that are alert and good at negotiating is a help. The UK has not had the best representatives in the past which impacts badly on the UK if important details are missed. Farage being absent in the majority of the debates in the past was bad for the fishing industry.

The EU Parliament is elected by people in the member states.
The EU Council of Ministers is made up of elected ministers from each member state.

The European Court of justice is not elected but judges form each member state rotate.

The Commission is unelected but it performs the civil service function. The president of the Commission , at the moment Junker, is nominated and then 'formally' elected.

Even though we do not elected civil servants in the U.K. people believe the election of the President of the Commission to be undemocratic because it is usually just nodded through.

The EU parliament can not introduce legislation and this is also seen as undemocratic. However, due to the limited power of the EU only certain laws can be introduced so it is done via the Commission to make sure time isn't waisted on laws that are not applicable.

The UK isn't democraitc. First past the post and a heavily centralized party and media system effectively disenfranchise most Britons, and we haven't had a government with a majority mandate since the 1930s, and we are ruled currently by a Tory party who 'speak for Britain' based on 42% of votes, 6% less than voted remain, and who most of the rest detest and only get elected because the 'left' is divided by two major parties. The EU isn't democratic either, but it isn't meant to be any more or less democratic than its members.

ronatheseal fully agree about the U.K..

Could you explain why the EU isn't democratic in your opinion?

Can just add 'democracy' isn't one thing. There are a variety of democratic structures.

I think the U.K. actually is democratic it's just a very weak version of democracy with major structural issues.

Ronatheseal - why isn’t the EU democratic?

The EU operates with almost no reference to any electorate, rather like Nato. I am a remain voter, but I can't see how that is democratic. The biggest decisions are made by [the representatives of] member states, all of which have some democratic institutions that play some limited role in decision making. I don't see why it has to be democratic, it is not a state, the democratic deficits that damage its accountability and sensitivity to popular opinion reflect the democratic deficits of the member states mixed with the realities of international politics.

That’s interesting - but aren’t EU laws passed by MEPs, who are elected, unlike NATO? Having said that, one of my MEPs is Nigel Farage - can’t believe that he adds much to the democratic process, what with never attending and being a general arse.

'I think the U.K. actually is democratic'
Ancient pagan priests who performed sacrifices at harvest did so in the belief that they were shaping important events in nature by manipulating the deities who controlled it. Their rituals were theatre that convinced people they had power they didn't actually have, and they rewarded their priests for helping them wield that imaginary power and deposed their priests if their rituals 'didn't work'. I think British general elections are pretty much like that for the most part.

'EU laws passed by MEPs, who are elected'
MEPs technically have some independent powers, but I don't think electorates in the EU engage with or are even informed about what happens, and EU elections are usually dominated by national politics.