3.7 Million EU Citizens in the UK, what if they all just refused to register?

[KennDodd]

Dose anybody remember the 'can pay, wont pay' anti Poll Tax movement? Is there any such campaign for EU citizens? I bet they'd get loads of support if they just refused to register.

So it is highly likely to be a massive fuck up even if EU citizens are willing to apply (in fact the more eager they are, the higher the likelihood that the whole process will grind to a resounding halt).

"I would imagine there'd be lots of ways to ensure it was enforced without the government having to lift a finger.

No job unless you have proof of registered settled status - onus on employers and heavy legal fines.
No housing unless you have proof of registered settled status - onus on landlords/ mortgage companies and see above.
No UB/ NHS treatment/ schooling etc. - the list could be endless."

Yes, this. No recourse to public funds.

I wonder how many applications will be rejected

There is some quite detailed data available on the government website now.

This discussion, from one of the support groups that helped vulnerable applicants in the pilots, contains a link to the government data but also raises some serious issues:
threadreaderapp.com/thread/1087409600163389441.html

• while the HO is not refusing applications outright, many people who have a right to settled status are instead being granted pre-settled status which gives significantly fewer rights.

• 100% (!!!!!!) of their vulnerable clients applying for settled status were required to give additional evidence of residence (ie existing government records - tax, NI etc - were not considered sufficient)

• 50% of their clients waited more than 3 weeks for a decision. 2 are still waiting after more than eight weeks.

that leaves around 1k unaccounted for - refused? (about 3%)

Not unaccounted for - 1,053 applicants were from the first phase;

Separately, of the 1,053 cases that applied under the first phase of testing (private beta 1), all have now been granted status under the scheme Of these:
•681 (65%) received settled status
•372 (35%) received pre-settled status
no cases were refused

www.gov.uk/government/publications/eu-settlement-scheme-private-beta-2/eu-settlement-scheme-private-beta-testing-

phase-2-report

29,987 applications were received over 51 days
•over a third of applications (11,609) were submitted in the last five days of PB2
•the largest number of applications (2,906) was submitted on 21 December 2018
•27,211 decisions had been made and sent out to applicants by 14 January 2019 (decisions are emailed, with a link to the online status service to enable the person to check their status) •19,105 (70%) were granted settled status, of which 2,925 were based on holding valid permanent residence (PR) documentation or existing Indefinite Leave to Remain (ILR)
•8,106 (30%) were granted pre-settled status
no cases were refused

•69% of decided cases were processed in three working days, with 81% processed within a week
•of the 2,776 cases awaiting a decision as at 14 January 2019, the majority were incomplete or awaiting further evidence. This is because: •the applicant needed to submit their passport for verification (around a third of the cases), but some had not yet been able to do so as they were travelling over the holiday period
•the applicant had erroneously claimed to have a valid PR document and so had benefitted from a fee exemption to which they were not entitled (around a third of the cases)
•a smaller proportion of cases were held pending further evidence of residence to be submitted from the applicant. UKVI is working directly with these applicants
•the remainder were held pending a series of minor technical updates to the caseworking system due to take place in the week commencing 14 January 2019 or were subject to other clarifications

while the HO is not refusing applications outright, many people who have a right to settled status are instead being granted pre-settled status which gives significantly fewer rights

The support group in the link are not aware of any applicants in that situation - they are only voicing concerns about what could be happening.

Clavinova, I don't believe you read the thread I linked to. Below, for the hard of understanding:

"Government says 81% of all PB2 applications were processed within a week. Half of our vulnerable clients waited 3 weeks or more for a decision. We’re still waiting for 25% of the decisions in our cases. 2 of our clients have been waiting more than 8 weeks now for a decision."

"Government says 84% of cases did not need to provide any additional evidence of residence. 83% of the vulnerable clients we supported did need to provide additional evidence of residence. This figure rises to 100% of those who applied for settled status (rather than pre-settled)"

Clavinova, I don't believe you read the thread I linked to. Below, for the hard of understanding

I read your link perfectly well - where does it say; many people who have a right to settled status are instead being granted pre-settled status which gives significantly fewer rights?

Instead it says; We just don’t know how many applied for settled status but were given pre-settled status

I can see that my first link didn't work;
www.gov.uk/government/publications/eu-settlement-scheme-private-beta-2/eu-settlement-scheme-private-beta-testing-phase-2-report

Are you looking at the same link? The one from a group which has supported vulnerable applicants through the process?

The majority of the pilot phase applicants were straightforward cases and it would be surprising and concerning if the majority weren't approved quickly and easily.

However as the thread I linked to points out we don't know how many applicants were turned down for settled status and received pre-settled instead. Elsewhere I have seen data about applicants who were given the wrong status on first application and had to appeal.

The proof of the pudding was always going to be how the system managed vulnerable applicants or those whose age, literacy, access to technology, personal history make them less able to navigate the process. Because with 3.8 million EU citizens to process, there is enormous potential for this to cause real harm to very large numbers of people.

Are you looking at the same link?
You know I am.
Elsewhere I have seen data about applicants who were given the wrong status on first application and had to appeal
Happy to read those links as well.

They would be playing with fire if they refused to register. (The whole registration requirement is absolutely disgusting and unworthy of our nation, but that's a separate argument).

The Hostile Environment may have changed its name, but it hasn't gone away. New stories of Home Office excesses seem to surface almost daily in the newspapers. It would therefore be incredibly irresponsible to suggest that anyone should gamble on the UK Government "looking the other way". There is absolutely no indication that they intend to take a soft, tolerant line on this.

The Tories aren't called the Nasty Party for nothing. There's truth behind the nickname.

And when you have people like Steve Barclay MP (Brexit Secretary) boasting on Twitter that "Ending free movement from the EU is one of the big wins we've secured in our #Brexit deal." it's pretty clear which way the wind is blowing. Sickening language, sickening sentiment - but it tells us point-blank that resistance isn't worth the risk.
twitter.com/SteveBarclay/status/1070741162946899969

You have to register in many countries in the EU. Spain has an ID card since forever. I think in Italy you had to register.
No big deal and now it won't cost them a penny.

I'm in the EU.
20EUR to get a Registration Certificate.
After 5 years another 20EUR to get a Permanent Residency Certificate.

Well they could do but that would be incredibly entitled. You can’t move to a different country and refuse to abide by its laws. You either do as your host country demands or you leave. I say this as an immigrant.

You can’t move to a different country and refuse to abide by its laws.One thing when you contemplate moving, another is having lived for years and sudden change of rules. The ones i'm worried about the most are SAHPS, carers and the disabled

People have been quick to forget Windrush

It's one thing requiring immigrants to register on arrival. It's quite another to change the rules at a later date, and leave residents (some of whom who may have been living in the U.K. for several decades) exposed to the "hostile environment" and potentially at risk of losing jobs and being unable to rent accommodation or receive healthcare.

I have old and elderly E.U. citizen family members. Lived here for decades. Worked here. Paid tax here. UK citizen children and grandchildren. We were assuming they were ok for some kind of automatic settled status but are checking it out just in case given the Windrush debacle.

I think some of this outrage is exaggerated.

British citizens living in Europe and exercising their right to freedom of movement have always had to register with the local authorities - and have to repeat the process at regular intervals to access all kinds of basic services. This has always come at a cost.

They will have to apply for leave to remain post Brexit.
If they do not do this they will be unable to access basic services - healthcare, education for children etc.
They will also find that immigration systems note that they have been in the Schengen area for more than 90/180 days and they will be refused re-entry if they leave the area.

If there was a point, williteverend99 seems to have missed it ...

I'm going to go out on a limb here, and guess williteverend99 is a UK citizen by birth ?

Does it not now seem outrageous that these 3.7 million EU citizens, people who were so affected by the result were not allowed to vote in the referendum?

Some had been living in this country for many years, paying taxes and contributing to our society in many ways. What happened to "no taxation without representation"?

All EU citizens living here will have to register, without exception, even if they've been here for decades.

We can argue whether it's right or wrong, but we can't argue that's not the process, because it is.

As such, if they (or you, if you're an EU citizen reading this) want to stay, they'll be obliged to go through the registration process by June 2021.

Now, is it fair? Perhaps. It's certainly true that most other EU countries require registration. But the problem is that the Home Office isn't exactly famed for its accuracy, speed, or friendly demeanour. So there are bound to be many problems, edge cases and outright mistakes.

And since we're talking of a cohort in excess of 3 million potential applicants, even a very small problem rate in % terms will mean turmoil and upheaval in the lives of tens or hundreds of thousands of people.

Maybe, just maybe, because we'll be busy negotiating our new relationship with the EU (assuming Brexit Day has passed by then) the H.O. will take a different approach to its usual hobnailed boot stomping across peoples' lives, and be pragmatic and helpful about the problems, rather than confrontational.

I have no expectation that will be the case, but it's ok to hope they will.

We were assuming they were ok for some kind of automatic settled status but are checking it out just in case given the Windrush debacle.

@bellinisurge the HO literature seems to suggest that old ILR documents are OK but on twitter people are saying that there is some confusion (among the HO people processing the documents) about what is and isn't acceptable.

The problem is that for many elderly people, a status that is stored in the cloud is not going to be a fat lot of use ... whereas there risks being uncertainty about whether existing paper documents will be acceptable.

The big difference vs European residents' cards is that (a) our host countries didn't unilaterally change our status and (b) the process is usually done locally with human input not online. (It's still going to be a struggle for some people).

@DG Rosetti

You’ve got that quite wrong