3.7 Million EU Citizens in the UK, what if they all just refused to register?

[KennDodd]

Dose anybody remember the 'can pay, wont pay' anti Poll Tax movement? Is there any such campaign for EU citizens? I bet they'd get loads of support if they just refused to register.

I would imagine there'd be lots of ways to ensure it was enforced without the government having to lift a finger.

No job unless you have proof of registered settled status - onus on employers and heavy legal fines.
No housing unless you have proof of registered settled status - onus on landlords/ mortgage companies and see above.
No UB/ NHS treatment/ schooling etc. - the list could be endless.

It would be highly unethical to promote non-registration IMO. The balance of power is not on the side of the individual.

It's already highly likely that many won't register: elderly in care homes or living with dementia, people with disabilities, people who don't have access to phones or digital media, people who don't realise that they need to apply - many older EU citizens who have been in the U.K. for decades seem to think their existing ILR is all they require.

In the home office trial, of the Roma that did the settled status process, only 2 individuals were able to manage the process without assistance (I'll try to find a link for that, but if I remember correctly that was only about 5% of the Roma involved in the trial).

I'd be surprised if the number of people who fail to apply is less than 10%, some won't do it for the above reasons, some because they actively refuse; some may prefer to leave rather than do it. And I'd also be surprised if the number of failed applications is much below 10%, because even if the HO assesses applications in good faith, as the process rolls out and the help available becomes over-stretched, there will be more incomplete applications or applications containing errors.

The most recent information I've seen suggests that nearly 10% of the applications from the first two pilot phases were still outstanding. And most of the pilot applications will have been straightforward cases.

And in a no deal, the situation is even more serious, because although the government says that EU citizens will have a grace period to apply, legally there is still no framework for this (and it's looking as if there is unlikely to be one by 29/3) and there has been no communication with employers or landlords.

What this means is that if there is no deal we can expect risk-averse employers and landlords to start refusing EU citizens right away, because of the high financial penalties of employing or renting to immigrants without the right documentation.

I saw somebody on BBC news last night who had been here many, many years, married to a British wife, British children saying he would refuse to register out of principle. I heard Raymond Blanc on the radio, I missed a bit of it but from what I heard he seemed very annoyed about the big list of foreigners. Another factor I suppose is while I would absolutely support any none action they wanted to take and march in the street with them, there is real anti immigrant feeling in the UK so they might not get public support.

I think there will be some refuseniks especially among people in privileged positions who can count on the media taking their side against the HO.

But it wouldn't be right at all to encourage people not in high profile situations to not apply. There will already be enough accidental non-applicants, and many other people who will leave it too late and miss the deadline because they can't complete the process in time.

Many, many EU citizens married to British Citizens for decades and with British children and grand children do not realise that they might not be able to stay in the UK. Indeed ,since July 2012, May's hostile environment took care of ensuring that spouses cannot stay. This will be a shock for many.

I have spoken to many 60 year olds and 70 year olds who do not seem to realise that they might get split from their husbands, children and grand children.

Many of them met their husband in the EU, gave up their job in their home country to be with their husband, stayed at home to raise the children. They cannot therefore prove that they were self sufficient because everything was/is in joint names ...
It will get nasty ..

It will get nasty..
I agree, I am so angry on their behalf. Worse, I think the public will support a hard line.

It will mainly be older people, plus vulnerable younger people, who are affected - plus a percentage of others who fall foul of HO randomness or who have a complicated situation.

I don't know what the number "at risk" is but a conservative estimate would suggest it's at least the equivalent of the population of a sizeable town.

Agree with you Ken.
The general public does not seem to get that many EU nationals came in the UK not only for economic reasons (they did not starve in their own country quite the contrary!) but for marital reasons....
If you are a Swede and met your British husband in Sweden, well you have to choose in which country to build your family! Unfortunately, the woman often sacrifices everything to leave her home country and as usual gets the s**t decades later..

I worked and lived in the UK for 20+ years, the thought of not being welcome (we moved back to mainland Europe) to settle back in the UK with my British DH and DD makes me feel ill. I'm annoyed we have been forced to spend small fortune getting our UK driving licences swapped to EU ones, getting dual passports and getting all documents in place so my soon to be non-EU resident DH can stay here in EU. We are in limbo, I for one will probably not be able to settle back in the UK after having lived and worked (and not once taken a penny from the Government, let's be clear about that), but my DH and DD will be. What a shitshow.

If we lived in an ideal world, maybe it would be a great idea but we just don't.
My mum is having to apply for settled status after having lived here for 30 years and it's just too emotional and anger inducing to even consider not just getting on with it.

There were talks of people deliberately trying to crash the application system and it just put the absolute fear of god into her that her application wouldn't go through and she'd be forced to leave her family.

It's all too close to home for us to even hypothesise.

They cannot therefore prove that they were self sufficient because everything was/is in joint names ...
It will get nasty ..

Actually the guidelines for permanent residence accept joint accounts and bills so if you are a sahm and have access to your other half's payslips and a joint account, you're considered self sufficient and you're ok.

I think you'll find they're already registered. Remember all those school census where the children have to prove where they're from ?

Remember all the copies needed of passports for jobs, housing and bank accounts ?

Remember having to provide proof of entitlement for NHS care ?

etc
etc
etc

The most effective thing the 3.7 million could do is up sticks and leave the rest of the UK wallowing in the mess. Although that would be exactly what some Brexiteers dream of.

They should all register.
The public will not be on their side.

many older EU citizens who have been in the U.K. for decades seem to think their existing ILR is all they require.

This is certainly what my elderly relative, who’s been here since 1965, has been led to believe by the government’s own guidance:

www.gov.uk/settled-status-eu-citizens-families/if-you-have-permanent-residence-or-indefinite-leave-to-remain

Have they misinterpreted this, then? If so, it’s going to be a bloody nightmare getting through this hurdle.

GCAcademic it seems that's the case for people who still have the original documentation but as Windrush scandal showed, people who have been in the U.K. legally for many decades may struggle to provide evidence, and the HO may not have kept the relevant records.

What will be more complicated is how this is communicated to employers, banks, landlords, NHS gatekeepers etc ... because people without an immigration law background will have to make a judgement about who needs settled status and who doesn't.

but as Windrush scandal showed, people who have been in the U.K. legally for many decades may struggle to provide evidence, and the HO may not have kept the relevant records.

Simply resolved by a court ruling (which might yet come) that if the Home Office can't find the records to enforce a penalty, they can - politely - get fucked.

Ah, I see. Thanks Mistrigri. She has the original documentation.

Why would they do that. It's 65 quid it's security - they'd be nuts not to

I'm afraid that shit will hit the fan much later. When people will get old, fall ill and then appears they are illegal because of a distant criminal record of insufficient income of a spouse

The £65 fee has been scrapped;
www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-politics-46950719

GCAcademic
Home Office have already tried it on in 2018 on Danish former Ispwich Mayor who had ILR stamped in her old passport in 1979.
She won her appeal

www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-england-suffolk-44227122

Some non-EU migrants with indefinite leave to remain refused to get a Biometric Residence Permit on principle, it's just gotten more expensive and far harder over time to prove the continuous resident requirements even with ILR, resulting in difficulty in working - or even volunteering - and in accessing services. Some might be able to get away with it, but it leaves people in a very vulnerable position as the system will work in a way where evidence of registering is expected and people without cut off and having to jump through extra hoops to survive.

Thank you Lico, I’m disgusted, but not surprised, that the Home Office tried this.

There are some figures on the pilot phases of settled status on the Guardian website this evening.

Roughly 31k applications

• Of which "more than 27k" were successful
• Just under 3k are waiting for a decision (nearly 10%)
• that leaves around 1k unaccounted for - refused? (about 3%)

Of the applications awaiting a decision, about a third are due to the app not being able to verify their passport, which means the passport has to be checked manually.

These were supposed to be mainly straightforward cases (many were NHS and university employees)