Anyone heard of Yanis Varoufakis and DiEM25 movement

[vdbfamily]

I am sick of being told that everyone who voted leave is an ignorant racist but find it hard to verbalise why remaining troubles me.A friend shared this

and this

diem25.org/manifesto-long/?fbclid=IwAR21sh522hoAZzKmsdatgAksGidvCLPBerfrce7IBeZ_hjc24Dsm-ng7ccQ

and although it is a long talk, it kind of sums up my anxieties about a non democratic , non transparent European parliament, with numerous dodgy deals going on and the seat of power becoming more and more Germany centric. Does that not worry people more than having to get a visa to visit Europe etc. I think we risk a lot more by remaining, even if it is uncomfortable initially.

Op I can't watch whatever it is but yes, it does concern me.

We can hardly keep tabs on our own government. I think we are very vulnerable yes, exposed to eu leadership.

I always enjoy listening Varoufakis and have quoted him on these threads before. He's a remainer though, and a marxist, and supportive of Corbyn, but is very articulate about what is wrong with the EU.

Yanis wanted the UK to REMAIN though. He explained his position in one of the question time episode after the Brexit referendum.

To be clear, he is not supporting Brexit but definitely wanting reform and whilst I voted to leave I would prefer to remain with major reform.

The EU is democratic.

The European Parliament is elected.
The Council of Ministers is made up of elected representatives.

The Commission is not elected but is the equivalent of the civil service.
The Commission President is elected by other elected bodies making the
EU more democratic than the U.K.

I would love to reform the EU but to do that we needed to remain and retain our credibility.

We have lost our credibility and pissed away an opportunity to reform by spending time hunting unicorns.

Sorry...x-post...had not seen the comments already. He says during the questions at the end that he is friends with ministers from all parties and in conversations about this they are all in agreement which indicates a major problem with UK politics at present.

Eu does need to improve, I think many remainers agree with that. In many ways I think it has a good opportunity now that UK is leaving.

whilst I voted to leave I would prefer to remain with major reform

Moussemoose...when he took his job as the Greek finance minister he was asked to sign an agreement that dictated the actions he had to take if he wanted the support of Europe. He said that the only power he had over the situation was the amount of trillions Greece was owing. That is not democracy, it is a dictatorship.
In the words of a fairly political friend of mine who is not afraid to say what he thinks and out of interest also wants to remain with reform

Do people not understand how the EU works? Surely all these well paid, full time journo's know! The EU maintains its united front by getting all 26/27 representatives in a room and explaining what the EU commission wants. Desenters are identified and taken aside to have life explained to them. On the one had there is the big stick.... we will stop sending you money, we will create legal problems for your government that we know is a little bit corrupt, or on the other hand the carrot, if you tow the line on this one we'll buy you a new airport, hospital, give you some extra money for a 'staff Christmas party' ! Of course the carrot, is our money, the tax payers of Europe! So of course Barnier and Junker et al can stand up and pronounce unanimous unyielding support, but let us not mistake or confuse that for being a unified or even majority opinion of the people of Europes countries! On the other hand in Westminster we cling to a notion of democratic government, and this horse trading system that allows the EU to govern is rather distasteful! Makes our cash for influence scandals seem so petty!

How is that democracy?

Helmet...I realise that comment is a contradiction but there was no reform happening and many people took the opportunity to show how unhappy they were. It is not ignorance because if there is no reform, I would prefer to be out of it no matter how hard that may be initially. Did you listen to the talk? Whilst Germany is richer than it has ever been and has a major surplus, 40% of Germans are poorer than they have been for years. Germany is investing overseas whilst Germans struggle.
I am afraid I am not very political and will struggle on a forum like this to say what I think but it just a sense of dis-ease with the power of those holding the pursestrings to control everything.

whilst I voted to leave I would prefer to remain with major reform

This is, I believe, a valid and I think reasonably widespread opinion amongst leavers who would perhaps have preferred major reform BUT had zero faith that reform would happen and we’re better off out of the EU as it is/where it seems to be heading currently.

whilst I voted to leave I would prefer to remain with major reform.

vdbfamily so when you voted to leave did you understand the consequences of your vote?

@vdbfamily
You are absolutely right about how the EU Commission works.

Makes me laugh then people say they could get 27 countries to agree their negotiating position. They are told what they have to agree with, as we were too all too often.

Twig.....I do not think anyone completely understood the consequences as it was and still is not clear how it would happen, however since the vote 2 things have become clear to me

1. many of the negative consequences of Brexit are self fulfilling and acaremongering. If with one accord we all decided it was what we wanted and going to be good for us, the country would flourish because people would be confident and investing their money and building their businesses as usual but because of all the fear and uncertainty, it is a miracle we have survived to this point at all really
2. Europe have manipulated the situation massively which has painted them in an even worse light than they were before to me and makes me want to get away from their control more than ever.

I think many of us agree that the EU is not perfect.
Massive reform is needed.

I would have thought it would have been easier to achieve that reform from inside instead of being on the outside surrounded by members of the club.

Which of the negative consequences of ‘brexit’ do you think are self-fulfilling or scaremongering? Which do you think would be negated by just believing in ‘brexit’ a bit more?

But random, why were we never able to reform from inside.

I just can't see how we are compatible to the eu. It's been said many times that other countries, within reason do whatever suits them. We don't. We are honest! We follow the the rules.

Thanks op.
Really interesting!

I suppose a financial fear of investing, buying a house,growing a business, or even just booking a holiday etc affects the economy negatively,
Europeans returning home because they feel unwelcome or believe they will be thrown out, thus leaving a deficit of workers in the NHS etc, despite assurances that they will be allowed to stay.
People starting to stockpile food which as we get closer and if Brexit goes ahead, will of course cause food shortages because a proportion of brits will have enough at home to last them for several months.

When have we tried to reform - and I mean really tried to reform.
Not that excuse of an attempt from David Cameron.
If it was done in a sensible way I am sure reforms could be made.

Here is a plenary of the EU debate on Brexit.
www.europarl.europa.eu/plenary/EN/vod.html?mode=chapter&vodLanguage=EN&startTime=20190116-08:39:57-447#
It is worth a watch, so grown up compared to our parliament.

I am sick of being told that everyone who voted leave is an ignorant racist
Not this old trope again.
Strange how many leavers start their threads with this nonsense.

In a few weeks we can go back to blaming our own government for being incompetent. I'm looking forward to that although generally tories have a good track record of shifting blame to others. Eu has its issues yes and so does our parliament. After March we will not need to worry about the eu but are still stuck with our own bunch.

Whilst Germany is richer than it has ever been and has a major surplus, 40% of Germans are poorer than they have been for years.

If this is true, is that not a choice that German politicians are making regarding German policy in Germany? How is it different from the UK being a very rich country but people living in terrible poverty?

I do agree that the rich are getting richer and the poor are getting poorer, but I don't understand how the internal policies of any country are the responsibility of the EU. People get the government they vote for.