Why is a second referendum undemocratic?

[MotherOfDragons90]

I genuinely don’t understand.

By the same logic we shouldn’t have general elections every 4 years because the people have already voted before.

I didn’t vote for a few reasons, I was on holiday but also couldn’t really make head nor tail of what the truth in amongst all the information being spread was. My close friend voted leave and would now vote remain.

So I don’t understand the argument that it isn’t democratic - if it’s still what The People want, leave will win again? If they don’t it’s because it isn’t what the people want now they are in full position of the facts.

The LibDems made an election manifesto pledge not to increase student fees. They broke that pledge. At the next GE they were wiped out. Any MP who’s thinking of ignoring the referendum result would do well to remember that.

Especially as 70% of Conservative constituencies and 60% of Labour constituencies voted to Leave in the EU referendum.

But a vote on the deal would always mean it was a bad deal offered

The question is: is a second referendum undemocratic?

The answer is no, legally, constitutionally, democratically.

If the question is: will people think it's undemocratic?

Then it depends.

Do we're govern by law and rules or based on what people 'think'?

I REALLY wish they would have a second referendum. To my shame I voted Brexit (dons hard hat) I feel like I was tricked and wish I knew then what I know now. I would definitely vote remain now.

I might be being thick but I don't understand the argument that 17 million people have spoken and we must not ask them again. We must give them what they asked for years ago.

If the 17 million people still want Brexit they will vote leave and there won't be an issue. If some of the 17 million people have died or changed their minds then surely Brexit is no longer the will of people and to force it on us would be undemocratic?

It seems both sensible and democratic to check it is still what the people want.

I don't agree with the "keep voting until we get the right result" argument. If Theresa May had come up with a deal that benefited the UK (or even one that only disadvantaged us a bit, let's be honest) then MPs would have voted for it and we'd be leaving, pure and simple. We're in this situation because the deal is so rubbish and because MPs can't agree on it. We have to either find a better way of leaving or, since the options currently on offer (no deal, the WA) have significant issues, we could choose to ask the people to choose between them - but in that case why wouldn't you also include remain as an option, because it would be entirely reasonable for people to look at the deals on offer and conclude that they'd rather not bother.

The UK can’t be trusted to run referendums there needs to be an enquiry into 2016. Parliament needs to take back control, be honest with the public and call the shit show off.

People that want to remain will never see why you can't keep asking the same question until you get the result you want.

But it wouldn't be the same question - we have different information now.

But there has to be a cut off. The population is always changing.

In Greece young people are way more anti EU, if that happens over here will we need another vote? Can't keep voting every two years. Votes like this have to be once in a generation else it just doesn't work and will cause unrest.

@clavinova

Interesting result in the Polls yesterday (Kantar);
If there was another referendum on Britain’s membership of the EU, how would you vote?

Remain 35%
Leave 44%
Don't know/undecided 21%

whatukthinks.org/eu/questions/if-a-second-eu-referendum-were-held-today-how-would-you-vote/

No, it's the other way around!

Remain 44%
Leave 35%
Don't know/undecided 21%

(I think there may have previously been an error on the link, as checking Kantar's website gives the above and the link is now correct too).

And if you remove the Don't Knows/Wouldn't Votes:

Remain 56%
Leave 44%

whatukthinks.org/eu/questions/if-a-second-eu-referendum-were-held-today-how-would-you-vote/?removed

The only honest referendum if we had one tomorrow would have to be Clean Brexit vs Remain.
Can't see that happening.

OP I do not understand either why a second ref is 'undemocratic'.

Polls about this are all over the place and within the margin of error it could go either way.

most of the country probably wouldn't bother voting if it went again, i certainly wouldn't, in any election local of otherwise, complete waste of time.

paintit it's totally normal in countries that do direct democracy that in complex questions you get asked twice: once for the original question to be asked, and then once to confirm whether the people actually want the solution that the government has come up with or not. Specially if it's involving international treaties, because you can say to your own government to do x, y and z and that's fine, but you don't know what the other countries are going to do in retaliation response. Ireland does it more or less like that, Switzerland does it more or less like that. It would be different if we were just asking the government to build like 100,000 new decent council houses or scrap universal credit, you know, like you'd expect them to know how to just get on and do that. But I think there's a genuine question to be answered as to whether the WA is really what people wanted when they voted Brexit. (I also think that there should be another Scottish independence referendum after the dust has settled on all this, because of the same idea, you have to know what you're actually voting for, and loads of Scottish people voted Remain in 2014 because they wanted to stay in the EU! I also think they should extend the vote to Scottish outside Scotland this time, seeing as it affects us as much as it affects Scottish people in Scotland, but I know that's an unpopular opinion these days as emigrating has suddenly become socially unnacceptable everywhere...)

Just having more info now is irrelevant. We only have the info (and scaremongering) that those in power want us to have.

We were told on voting that this was a final decision. A once in a lifetime.

This was the time for all info to be put on the table. If young people didn't bother to vote then then that's their fault! Ok some older people have died but more people have got older too so that makes no sense.

I don't know one leave voter who has changed their mind. Most just want then to get on with it! It's only the hardcore remainers pushing for a 2nd ref- many remainers just voted for the status quo

If there was another referendum and campaigns started -the biggest argument will be that for following through on voters wishes. That will be more powerful than anything and many on the fence will vote out of anger that people's rights can be so easily ignored. Not all remaoners agree with a 2nd vote either. Some believe that the voting system override individual wants

Also every single poll I think predicated remain last time so the latest polls are rubbish as leave voters don't often publicise their choice whereas remainers do

Buttercupsandaisies
Whose rights are being ignored?

The referendum was advisory?

If it had been binding it would have had to be rerun because of electoral irregularities.

These are constitutional facts. Just because you 'think' it's not right does not make you correct.

This is about constitutional legalities.

Some believe that the voting system override individual wants - I don't even know what this means.

What I mean is that some people who voted remain eg some of my family members/colleagues have stated that they'd actually vote leave next time - not because they agree with it but because that was what was voted for and that honouring the result of a vote is more important - oit of principle

Buteo
No, it's the other way around!
(I think there may have previously been an error on the link, as checking Kantar's website gives the above and the link is now correct too)

That's why I posted interesting result - they transposed the figures, which they've now amended.

Would they change their vote if the referendum was held for a second time because election rules were broken the first time?

If the referendum had been binding it would have been declared void due to illegal practices.

It's undemocratic because Brexit hasn't been implemented. It's a mandate. The will of the majority of the British Public.
When there is an election the new government takes over for 4 years.
Then we vote again.
There wasn't any suggestion that this wasn't a one off vote.

The referendum had electoral irregularities.

Do you think an illegal election should be upheld?

Constitutionally it wasn't a mandate but if it had of been the election would have had to have been rerun.

If parliamentary elections had been held with the same rule breaking there would have been by-elections in the constituencies concerned.