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Brexit
Original poster

Second Referendum

252 replies

MyNameIsArthur · 15/12/2018 09:37

If there was a second referendum, how would you phrase the question on the ballot paper? I thought maybe it should be phrased in the following way in two parts but I'm not sure. What do you think?

A) Do you wish for the UK to Remain in the EU or to leave the EU ?

B) If the majority of the UK votes to leave the EU, do you wish for the UK to leave with:

                    1         Theresa May's deal
                    2          No deal
OP posts:
Original poster
MyNameIsArthur · 15/12/2018 11:19

Anyone?

OP posts:
jm90914 · 15/12/2018 11:30

If it came to another referendum, personally, I just don’t think it’s acceptable to include no deal as an option.

We’ve had two years to work on it, and it was done by the government that people voted for.

The choice should be accept the deal, or remain.

If leavers don’t like the deal that the government they voted for came up with, then they shouldn’t have voted for them.

However, the polling suggests that no deal supporters are a small minority of leavers anyway (the numbers aren’t even close, so it’s seems unlikely to be a statistical error).

noblegiraffe · 15/12/2018 11:38

The problem with your phrasing is that it doesn’t allow for people who might be happy with TM’s deal but definitely not with no deal to switch to remain over no deal.

recently · 15/12/2018 11:42

No Deal shouldn't be an option. We should get to vote on the deal that we have been negotiating for two years or remain. Voting for a possible future renegotiation of a deal would be as pointless as first time round!

Wait4nothing · 15/12/2018 11:45

Another who thinks no deal shouldn’t be an option. It is terrible for the majority and hasn’t been planned for and we would struggle to plan for it any time soon. It would also create issues with the GFA.

I think the vote should be remain or leave with TM WA. That is different from the first referendum so could reason a second but also still gives the options so people who do want to leave the uk can vote for that at the level in which it is possible (and not with unrealistic expectations).

Original poster
MyNameIsArthur · 15/12/2018 11:47

Wouldn't people just choose remain in the first question Noblegiraffe?

OP posts:
Original poster
MyNameIsArthur · 15/12/2018 11:49

Fair point about No Deal but if only a minority wanted No Deal then I guess it wouldn't get through anyway

OP posts:
Whisky2014 · 15/12/2018 11:49

It's not going to be a no deal for a start. And there won't be a 2nd referendum unfortunately.

Lottapianos · 15/12/2018 11:50

"If it came to another referendum, personally, I just don’t think it’s acceptable to include no deal as an option.'

Absolutely. No Deal is not any kind of reasonable option for anyone with their head screwed on. The options should be May's deal or remain. Or better yet, call the whole shitshow off and save the stress and expense of another vote

Original poster
MyNameIsArthur · 15/12/2018 11:51

I think if No Deal us included as an option, it is unlikely to get a majority but at least everyone was given the option so there may be some sort of closure

OP posts:
Novacancy3 · 15/12/2018 11:52

There are still many people who'd want to see a No Deal option. They don't believe that No Deal will be a catastrophe and think its Project Fear. Leave means Leave etc. I'm coming across this view point several times a day. They are hopeful that we will get a No Deal by default.

noblegiraffe · 15/12/2018 12:00

Wouldn't people just choose remain in the first question

Not if they actually wanted to leave the EU. There are people who want to leave the EU but realise that No Deal is batshit crazy.

jm90914 · 15/12/2018 12:13

@mynameisarthur

I see what you’re saying, but the government ran on this wording in their 2017 manifesto:

“Exit the European single market and customs union but seek a "deep and special partnership" including comprehensive free trade and customs agreement”

They won. People voted for a government who’s Brexit strategy was based on a promise to exit with a deal.

It’s not worth the risk for the purposes of closure, in my opinion.

SleightOfMind · 15/12/2018 12:18

No deal breaks the Good Friday Agreement.
An international peace treaty.
No serious government could ask their electorate to vote for that.

SleightOfMind · 15/12/2018 12:22

Also, the only cross party consensus on anything to do with Brexit in the Commons is that we can’t crash out with no deal.

Putting it on the ballot paper would be pandering to the extreme view of a tiny minority who are very vocal and willing to do anything to push their opinion.

lettuceWrap · 15/12/2018 12:29

I agree with Pp’s that “no deal” shouldn’t be an option in a people’s vote.

No Deal would be utter madness. Far worse, and with longer lasting negative consequences than May’s crappy deal... a deal that’s probably the best one she could get. It’s not possible to get a better deal for being outside the club, than the one we have for being in it!

The EU has confirmed that we can revoke A50 unilaterally - and given that the leave vote won an advisory referendum on a narrow margin, with use of illegal funds (and was almost certainly influenced by foreign interference), I very much hope that is what will happen at some point.

ScreamingValenta · 15/12/2018 12:31

Another who thinks the choice should be between accepting the deal and remaining.

jm90914 · 15/12/2018 12:52

@lettuce

Just to add to your reasoning about revoking article 50 - the leave campaign was also aided by the algorithmic targeting of propaganda to swing voters, using illegally shared user data.

Neweternal · 15/12/2018 12:59

Junker offered Canada plus at the beginning it's still on offer I'm happy with that.

SleightOfMind · 15/12/2018 13:06

Canada + would still require a backstop (can’t get through parliament) or we would have to break the GFA.

jm90914 · 15/12/2018 15:02

I’ve never really understood what Canada plus means...

jasjas1973 · 15/12/2018 15:22

No deal breaks the Good Friday Agreement.......No serious government could ask their electorate to vote for that

That is exactly what Camerons referendum was, i don't remember any "deal" attached to Leave.

If no-deal cannot be on the referendum, then neither can Remain (as its already been rejected by the electorate) so of course no-deal should be an option.

If we are going to push for another vote then the electorate need to face up to what they are voting on and for.

Personally, i think we should revoke and address the issues associated with why people voted Leave in the first place.

Moussemoose · 15/12/2018 16:25

Can we ask the electorate to request that parliament breaks international law?

We can but it would be extremely fool hardy.

You need to stop thinking about what Parliament can and can not do. It can do anything it bloody likes. There are very few checks and balances on the U.K. parliament.

DGRossetti · 15/12/2018 16:43

@jm90914

No one won the 2017 election.

RedSkyLastNight · 15/12/2018 16:53

If there was a second referendum, then the point would be to allow people to vote on what happens, now we know the detail and what is possible (and what is true). "No deal" is really a "none of the above" option - it's not actually saying what will happen.

I'd be happy to see as many options on the ballot paper as are actually viable. So anything that's actually a properly defined deal that the EU will support. So if JRM and his colleagues can actually define something tangible, by all means put it on the ballot.

I'd also like to see the ability to state preference. So Remain might be your 1st option, but you would prefer TM's deal as a 2nd option over any other Leave deal (for example).