Alternative to withdrawal agreement

[missesbiggens]

Well here is 1001 - having a withdrawal agreement is not the problem is it? The problem is the contents of it. Think about it.

"Apparently there are alternative technical solutions that can be used, although I haven't any idea what they might be. Just that they exist."
There's a bit of rubbish right there.

" I suspect the EU care less about the Good Friday Agreement and more about using the backstop as a tool to retain power and control over the trade negotiations. It allows them to keep the upper hand. If we don't capitulate, we enter the backstop (aka the Hotel California)"

More feelz.

No different to some one dreaming of unicorns.

But both of those things are either true or very likely. Neither are rubbish. That's like saying if I leave my house open I won't get burgled. You might not, but if anyone knows your house is unlocked then it is highly likely you'll get home and find your tv missing!

And I really don't understand why you keep mentioning unicorns haha.

I thought Leavers hated analogies. And that one makes no sense.

Of course it doesn't make any sense to you Bellini. Very little does.

I'm mentioning unicorns because there is no real difference between your position and the position of someone who voted Leave on an undeliverable fantasy.
You started off intelligently enough but you descended into how you feel. Feelings are only facts in so far as they are a true representation of your feelings.

The Troubles were a lot more than smuggling and hidden weapons.

{The reason this is happening because parliament agrees that this deal is not acceptable for the same reasons I have given.}

The trouble is that Brexit is a negotiation between the UK and the EU.
It is a 2 or more sided discussion.
The UK wants to leave, great. Legally, with NO alternative plans in position come 29 March with no agreements the UK will leave.
3 million EU nationals in the UK will become illegal immigrants and could be imprisoned. Similarly I and a million others in the UK would be illegal immigrants.
The stuff about flights and ships, they would legally be stopped.
That is the law, and is what A50 with no agreements implies.
A British citizen arriving by dingy on the coast of France would have the same legal rights as a Somali arriving on a boat elsewhere in Europe, essentially none.
SOME emergency agreements have been made so it is not quite so bleak.
The UK is supposedly a civilised place, although with the stuff going on at the moment this is getting harder to believe, but the upshot of the mess that has been created by the UK government has led to the EU not trusting the words of the UK with regard to upholding the Belfast Agreement, so the backstop is necessary and it is particularly so because cabinet ministers have said openly that they are prepared to break this international treaty.
The UK has put itself in a corner though it's own stupidity and downright recklessness and as a result needs to start negotiating properly, as it should have done 3 years ago.

Apparently there are alternative technical solutions that can be used, although I haven't any idea what they might be. Just that they exist.

You don’t understand the withdrawal agreement do you? The technical solutions are in it. The backstop only comes into play if technical solutions for a frictionless border don’t exist. If, as you say, the solutions do exist, then the backstop never gets used. So it would make sense to support the WA.

missesbiggens You might suspect that, though I think you are very wrong, but even if you are right, they won't back down on it.

{The Troubles were a lot more than smuggling and hidden weapons.}
Absolutely. I grew up hearing and seeing on TV the 'latest' atrocity almost every day. There is no way any reasonable person wants to risk that, but it has to be acknowledged that there are still a few who will not let it stay in the past. Kneecapping and other punishments continue. There are occasional bombings and murders and the guns still exist in stashes. Closing your eyes won't make these facts go away.

missesbiggens Any deal the EU accepts requires an open border between NI and Eire, full stop. This could be arranged very simply by the UK remaining in the single market, but May's red lines prevent this. The utterly immovable object is the backstop.

As a reminder, quote from the only UK politician - Steven pound - who can articulate the issue of a hard border in Ireland. All these people in the UK who talk so glibly about "binning the backstop" don't really know what they are risking and imposing on others - or maybe just don't give a damn.

Noting the issue was “life and death to the people of Ireland”, the shadow minister for Northern Ireland questioned the notion cameras could solve the problems of a 302-mile Border with 282 separate crossing points.

That will become a target. If you have a target, you have to defend the target. If you have a defender, you have to have someone to actually protect the defender,” he said.

Before you know where you are, you’re got uniformed UK BI /[border agency/] or customs officers on the border. If you do that then, I’m not being hysterical about this, but the peace process is finished.”

In that respect, he said, it was pointless to talk about border arrangements in Sweden and Norway.

“I’m not entirely convinced that our negotiating team are completely aware of just how absolutely visceral, how utterly serious and how incredibly important this is,” he said.

Exactly @Focalpoint . Some people think its just a question of cutting the backstop out.
If there was so much confidence in finding a technological solution soon there would be a time limit in the backstop. Frankly, if people were confident of a technological solution soon, no one would care about having a backstop. It would just be a bit of twiddly legal "tiding us over".
But it isn't.

Fundamentally the reason why peace prevails in NI is because everyone compromised.
From the Nationalist side (that for which there is no voice AT ALL in Westminster) we swallowed hard when ROI dropped its constitutional claim on NI in return for the semblance of a unified Ireland through the removal of all border infrastructure and alignment of many other rules and regs. Any attempt to re-install these barriers (physical or otherwise), brings this population back to the pre-peace status. It’s shattered in a million pieces.
I am from the border. This is not a game. From my perspective there is no difference between a no deal (ie hard border ensues) and a no backstop (ie hard border ensues) except that in the latter only GB gets something out of the deal.

@missesbiggens

There are no technical solutions or they would be used at other border crossings the world over.

The WA has been signed by the EU and by Teresa May, she shouldn't have signed it if it were so bad, so of course it cannot be renegotiated, there isn't a 7 day cool off period!!!!

Once the transition has been used up, the backstop will kick in and as you say, we will be forced to accept whatever the EU want.

Alternative is to scrap the WA, postpone A50 and renegotiate a different deal, based on a EFTA style arrangement, as you don't want a no-deal?