Confused about borders and importing because of Brexit

[jm90914]

All the talk of imports, exports and borders because of Brexit has got me confused.

I understand that, as far as importing goes, borders and controls exist to vet the quality of goods coming into the country. What I don’t understand is why (in the worst case scenario) Brexit will cause shortages.

Surely our government sets the regulations around border checks, so why can’t they just say that, from our end, there will still be no checks on goods coming from the EU even though we’ve left? Presumably that’s how things work now?

If the EU wants to check goods we export their way, then that’s their right, but why can’t we just accept medicines and stuff that we know are coming from the EU without any checks and chaos?

I was thinking it might be because imports now need to be taxed? But then I was again questioning why. Could the government not also just say we’re not charging any tariffs on goods from the EU?

I voted remain, and I’d do so a million times over, but I’m trying to understand why the border chaos everyone is talking about is going to happen.

I’ve got relatives and friends that rely on medication, so I’ve been trying to understand the implications and it just got me thinking.

{Buteo - yep. -c and -v has been used extensively. No sense in making huge changes on day one.
Your point is?}
You can photocopy £10 notes, but it won't make them legal tender.

Pretty bird - why are Remainers obsessed with Empire? It's a bizarre obsession, albeit an interesting period of history but it is just that, history.
Lots of European countries had empires, France for example, being so reluctant to give up their empire they started a war in Algeria which involved the deaths of 1.5 million people, mostly brown ones, and displaced a further 2 million.
I don't recall the end of British Empire being like that. Actually I don't recall it at all since I wasn't born when most of the countries became independent.
If you have to keep bringing up Empire in such a pejorative way I might have to point out that France herself wanted to join the Commonwealth back in the 1950s. That was before the Brit-hating big-nose got his grubby mitts on power though.

Empire? Yada yada yada ...

Why aren’t the proposed WTO tariff rates the promised Brexiteer special deals to boost trade outwith the EU?

Right, can we just assume that there are 27 more pages of this thread in which buteo and 1tisILeClerc twist and turn, duck, dive and swerve, obfuscate and flat out deny before finally admitting the reality that:

1. The UK is a full member of the WTO in its own right, and
2. Has been since the creation of the WTO, and
3. has submitted it's schedules to the WTO on 24th July 2018, and
4. Is this ready to trade using those schedules at 11pm GMT on 29th March 2019.

Buteo and 1tisleClerc post below indicating your acceptance of these facts and we can continue.

And here is Rees-Mogg tweeting a Sun article about how dropping tariff rates will be so great.

Funny how the Sun retracted the article (mainly because its maths rated a D-) but JRM didn’t delete his tweet.

The British had a reputation for pragmatism. The current shower, of both main parties have totally destroyed that illusion.
The fact that even any of them have been so disrespectful and undiplomatic to other heads of state and the EU over the last couple of years in front of the worlds press just shows they have completely lost the plot.

But what about all the objections to our schedules at the WTO. By the mild mannered New Zealanders for example. Which means we aren't just "good to go at the WTO". Did you miss that?

1) The UK is a full member of the WTO in its own right, and
2) Has been since the creation of the WTO, and
3) has submitted it's schedules to the WTO on 24th July 2018, and
4) Is this ready to trade using those schedules at 11pm GMT on 29th March 2019.

I haven’t denied any of that so I call bollocks on your little diatribe.

The fact that the schedules aren’t agreed doesn’t mean they can’t be used. It does mean that there will be ongoing disputes and negotiations.

Anyway, back to the Brexiteers’ promises - why haven’t the tariffs been slashed so that the UK can trade with all those lovely third world countries that the EU rip off?*

*Obviously excluding all those third world countries that trade on EBA.

{1) The UK is a full member of the WTO in its own right, and}
Incorrect, it is a joint member as part of the EU. While it may be a member, it would need to start new deals with any other party from scratch, at which the EU as an 'interested party' has a say in the proceedings.
Trade deals take many years as all parties that 'trade' in a particular commodity have to be involved in the negotiations. So for a UK to sell lamb to India, all other countries that sell lamb to India (New Zealand etc) have their say and can object and enforce quotas. If there are 10 countries selling lamb to India, they ALL have their say and can veto. This is for every single commodity that is traded. Photocopying won't do.
If you look through the 142 pages of the WTO report (I think it was from last year) it is difficult to find areas where the UK is separated from the EU (except the tables that show rankings of the EU members). UK trade is a bit over half of that of Germany, and about the same as France. A nice graphic showing this was linked on a different thread yesterday. UK trade is around 3,5% of total world trade IIRC.

1tis the UK is a member of the WTO, as is the EU (EC in the WTO). The UK’s goods schedules are included within the EC schedules.

Is that obfuscating enough for you Outside?

Slashing tariffs is not a good plan either.
Reducing a tariff might look a good idea, tariff free food could be imported, great. Unfortunately the rules say that exports (for those products) would also be tariff free so eliminating all or most of the profit from UK producers, so they go out of business. Taxes would have to rise so that the government can pay Universal Credit to the farmers who would be out of work.

We can slash as many tariffs as we like , as long as we slash them for everyone. But that doesn't mean anyone has to slash tariffs for us.

If we can't export but can import, it messes with our economy. We are a cheap market that never sells anything to anybody.

That doesn't sound too good to me.

But as I don't agree with Outside I must be utterly wrong.

1tis the UK can only set its own tariffs - so we could cut our tariffs to zero but it’s up to other countries to set tariffs on our exports.

Hey Outside, ducking and diving enough for you?

Despite being a member, when the UK leaves many or all tariffs will need to be renegotiated which will not happen overnight.

Anyhoo, The Apprentice is about to start (which is always a laugh, I’m so glad I have my ELC degree to show me the errors of their ways) so that’s me for tonight.

Before you listen to anything OutsideInTheGarden says can i point out he also beleives that the far right groups in the UK are just our very own UK security services pretending.

Love The Apprentice!

I refuse to watch The Apprentice (as it is the anthesis of the best business practice I experienced over the years and therefore doesn't do my blood pressure any good ) but some of my friends watched it this week purely because it was in Glasgow. The consensus opinion is that they were proven to be a shower of eejits - the putative Apprentices that is, not the Glaswegians

DH fell at the last hurdle for the first series. Slagging off Spurs at the final interview wasn’t a good move apparently

That and being quietly competent, rather than being a clueless arm waving self-promoter.

It makes a good story for dinner parties though.

Fab views of Glasgow - they must have got the sunny day DH sees the Science Centre and has fond memories of Nina and the Neurons (well fond memories of Nina)

Well you're all starting to learn a little. You've had a bit of a debate and agreed the points eventually but you just can't help yourselves jumping ahead and extrapolating this, that and the other, predicting smashing of tariffs and terrible effects on farmers and so on.
Take it one step at a time and build the model slowly. Don't jump to concussions.

1tisILeClerc - a company in the UK can sell lamb to India if it wants. The prevailing tariff will apply. No country in the world can prevent it. If an Indian wants to buy British lamb then they can.

So cone 29th March 2019 we are already good to go.
Glad you all agreed.

No debate necessary and not extrapolating anything. Never disagreed that the UK has submitted schedules. That was entirely your own little fallacy.

But do please tell me when the UK is going fulfill the Brexiteer’s promises to drop all the tariffs?

715 pages of replicating the EU tariiffs, I think Jacob and Patrick will be a tad disappointed.

Oh yeah, and 715 pages of replicating the tariffs in Euros.

Ouch.