Confused about borders and importing because of Brexit

[jm90914]

All the talk of imports, exports and borders because of Brexit has got me confused.

I understand that, as far as importing goes, borders and controls exist to vet the quality of goods coming into the country. What I don’t understand is why (in the worst case scenario) Brexit will cause shortages.

Surely our government sets the regulations around border checks, so why can’t they just say that, from our end, there will still be no checks on goods coming from the EU even though we’ve left? Presumably that’s how things work now?

If the EU wants to check goods we export their way, then that’s their right, but why can’t we just accept medicines and stuff that we know are coming from the EU without any checks and chaos?

I was thinking it might be because imports now need to be taxed? But then I was again questioning why. Could the government not also just say we’re not charging any tariffs on goods from the EU?

I voted remain, and I’d do so a million times over, but I’m trying to understand why the border chaos everyone is talking about is going to happen.

I’ve got relatives and friends that rely on medication, so I’ve been trying to understand the implications and it just got me thinking.

Felixstowe and Grimsby/Immingham handle more imports by value.

The figures I have is that Dover handles around 12% of imports by value (EU and non EU) or 20% of EU only, Bristol around 2.4% (EU and non EU) or 2.3% of EU only.

Southampton Container port (which I can see from my roof) prides itself on clearing containers within a few hours.

Dover / Folkestone base their numbers on eight minutes

Not many containers of lettuces coming through Southampton / Tilbury / Hull

Minor delays on plastic tat from China will not bring the UK's car plants to a halt.
Delays at Dover will.

Its all so bloody stupid and unnecessary

The point is that not everyone who deals with international trade is quaking in their boots at the prospect of normal wto rules.
If agreement is reached with the EU over trade then Dover might suffer a bit of disruption. The French however will pull out all the stops to minimise this since it really stuffs their side up too. In the end, after a bit of short-term disruption all will be well.

Some companies are already diverting deliveries to other ports - e.g. Immingham. Other companies will do the same. It can and will be sorted, by people who are not wetting their pants over stuff that they've never given a thought before to in their entire lives.

Talkinpeace - lettuces can be grown in the UK too. Spanish and French farmers will suffer from nobody buying their lettuces long before anyone in the UK starves from not eating them (there's bugger all calories in them anyway).
Can't see those farmers affording to buy more seed to plant when nobody is buying their produce. Would be much point in planting anyway as nobody wants their produce.

Which country trades solely on WTO rules?

.....holds breath waiting for answer

Op we don’t have enough abattoirs in uk so we send live cattle abroad to then come back to uk as meat, so this may cause a problem

Oh joy ERG IntheGarden is trolling all the Brexit threads with their alternative facts

{The point is that not everyone who deals with international trade is quaking in their boots at the prospect of normal wto rules.}
Mainly because no one else trades on basic WTO rules perhaps?

Every member of the WTO trades using WTO rules. It would be kind of silly for the members to join an organisation and then not use it's rules.

Ah! Maybe you are talking about schedules?

In which case the UK has lodged it's schedules with the WTO.

But,but,but you cry, "Russia, New Zealand and about 20 other countries have blocked them!"
No they haven't. Nobody can block a country's WTO schedules but merely file a dispute. Until that is resolved (it may never be - usually disputes are about quotas) the country can carry on using the disputed schedules. In fact this is just what the UK and the whole of the EU were doing from 1992-2017. They might still be actually.

Some companies are already diverting deliveries to other ports - e.g. Immingham

It's hardly an alternative though, unless you happen to be based in Lincolnshire or Yorkshire.

Immingham to:
Cuxhaven 22 hour crossing, 1 per day, £490
Esbjerg 18 hour crossing, 5 per week, £687
Brevik 45 hours, 2 per week, £720
Rotterdam 11-16 hours, 9 per week, £512

Dover to Calais
2 hour crossing, frequent sailings, £110

Folkestone to Calais
1 hour (train), up to 7 per HOUR, £102

(prices for a van, rather than an artic, but it illustrates the point)

That lettuce is going to be a bit wilted if the truck has to wait 12 hours for the next ferry from Rotterdam, sit on the ferry for 16 hours and then travel down to a distribution centre in the Midlands for onward distribution.

And you'd still have the same delays at customs even if you use an alternative port - there'd just be a bit more space to queue up in.

The Dover/Folkestone to Calais route is vital for flexible and economic delivery of time-sensitive goods.

Strange, copy and paste for that was from your statement saying normal WTO rules.

I gave up holding my breath and am just leaving this here

www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-politics-41859691 - BBC's Reality Check on "Does the UK trade with 'the rest of world' on WTO rules?"

I'll copy and paste the last couple of paragraphs....

Does any other country trade on WTO rules alone?
If you look at the WTO database which lists all regional trade agreements, there is nothing for Mauritania. That's led some to suggest Mauritania is the only member to trade solely on WTO rules.

However, according to the WTO, Mauritania has joined the Economic Community of West African States, and it has preferential trade arrangements with some 20 WTO members.

There are some countries which aren't WTO members, including Algeria, Serbia and North Korea, but the WTO says all of its members have some sort of bilateral or regional trade agreement in place.

So, the answer is None

But I suppose that the Brexiter vision of the UK (where the sun never set on the Empire ) is that the UK is so exceptional and the rest of the countries in world is so desperate for all its natural resources, its skilled personnel and brilliant productivity, that they will be queuing up to sign brilliant , advantageous trade deals in world record timescales

Outside - the gift that keeps on giving

The UK lodged it's draft schedules with the WTO on 24th July 2018. This is a fact, not opinion.

Prettybird - you may hate the UK and yourself but the UK is one of the world's largest economies and is about the 10th largest exporter of manufactured goods and the 2nd largest exporter of services in the world, overall around the 4th to the 6th largest exporter in the world.
This FACT does not make me think of glorious Empire or give me an erection but I merely note it as a fact.
From this fact I deduce that since there are always two parties to trade it follows that lots of people and companies trade with us. I do not suppose they do so because they like or love us or for any other reason that they like the products that we offer.
Similarly we purchase a lot of goods and services from the rest of the world. We do this not because we like them but because they offer something we want.
I don't set any of these facts changing post-Brexit.

If outside could give any upsides to leaving, rather than denigrating the legitimate concerns of known problem areas of leaving, it would be useful. Rather than what would be less worse, what would actually be much better, apart from the nice fluffy feeling in outsides tummy? People who know (I.e. in the transport and logistics industry) say moving things will be bloody awful with no deal. This leads to many of the problems being discussed and will impact directly on people. So why will it all be better when we leave?

Funny, I never said anything about hating the UK (although I will admit to hating Westminster). I just think that the Empire is long gone - and rose-tinted thinking that the "Commonwealth" will be looking forward to trading with us is unrealistic (unless by that, Brexiters are thinking of the UK as a "distressed" negotiator who will be looking for a quick deal, as Australia has already described the UK? ) And even though Brexit might bring abut Scottish independence quicker, I have often said that I don't want it achieved in that way - on the back of the suffering of the poorest and most vulnerable.

And I most definitely don't hate myself

Although we do now have evidence - which we had already deduced, given the GF style - that you are a male (I hasten to add - not all males are like that - there are a few who contribute very constructively to these boards - you are just not one of them)

I'll leave this here for those that want to see the stats for themselves:

globaledge.msu.edu/countries/united-kingdom/tradestats

People can also read the ONS' own stats to make their own judgements
www.ons.gov.uk/businessindustryandtrade/internationaltrade/articles/whodoestheuktradewith/2017-02-21

Nobody going to reply to the UK lodging it's WTO schedules back in July? Anyone? Hello?

OutsideInTheGarden
They will be in WTO's 'in tray' for another year or two, no panic.

Nobody going to reply to the UK lodging it's WTO schedules back in July? Anyone? Hello?

It’s a 715 page draft document which has mostly been cut and pasted from the EU schedules and copies the EU tariffs. It quotes tariffs in Euros. There are around 100 - 150 tariffs quotas that will need negotiation, plus the domestic support entitlement.

Argentina, Brazil, Canada, New Zealand, Thailand, the US, and Uruguay have already stated they would object to the proposed TRQ split between the EU and the UK based on historical averages.

And your point is?

The UK will trade using these schedules. There is no situation with the UK having no schedules even if the UK leaves without a deal.

Don't worry Buteo - Outside just thinks he is scoring points. He's not really interested in people who answer him

Fortunately, he gives us ample opportunity to show how tiny he is how easy it is to challenge his "killer" arguments. Some of us also have economics degrees and have lived (and/or were born) abroad and understand life in globalised economy where the UK isn't the centre of the pink map

Buteo - yep. -c and -v has been used extensively. No sense in making huge changes on day one.
Your point is?

Ah well, the point is that Brexiteers have made such a big deal about dropping tariff rates to boost trade.

Ain’t happening.