if referendums are bad why are remaniacs not saying we should leave after all we went in based on a 1975 flawed referendum said it was just a common market

[confussssed]

see subject only logical answers only.

[pointythings]

None so blind as those who will not see... Or read the manifesto.

[bellinisurge]

If you didn't bother to even skim read a manifesto, or vote in the European elections then all this must come as a tremendous surprise to you. You need to take some responsibility instead of lashing out and sending us all over a cliff with No Deal.

[GrammarTeacher]

Exactly. The lack of knowledge of the EU, how it works and what it does for us is shameful.

[surferjet]

The tories fought the 2015 election on giving us a referendum.
That’s why they won.
That’s all that mattered to me.

[GrammarTeacher]

Surfer - I don't think that IS why they won though. Otherwise UKIP would have been a lot more successful in previous years. Labour had been in power (before the coalition) for a long time. We tend to swing after a while. And the Lib Dem vote collapsed after the coalition. The result of that in many seats was a Liberal MP being replaced with a Tory. The referendum promise was just one of many issues.

[surferjet]

Lack of knowledge?
This is what the tories said ahout the EU in their 2015 manifesto.

Our commitment to you
For too long, your voice has been ignored on Europe
We will:
give you a say over whether we should stay in or leave the EU, with an in-out referendum

commit to keeping the pound and staying out of the Eurozone
reform the workings of the EU, which is too big, too bossy and too bureaucratic
reclaim power from Brussels on your behalf and safeguard British interests
back businesses to create jobs in Britain by completing ambitious trade deals and reducing red tape

Weren’t singing the EU’s praises were they.

There’s education for you 😂

[Jason118]

And you fell for it, hook, line and sinker.

[Peregrina]

There is quite a lot about the EU, pages 72-73, all rather muddled admittedly. But we say yes to the Single Market is one statement within a number of paragraphs. So technically no, it didn't get a whole paragraph to itself.

Lots of other choice gems too - a commitment to electrification of the railways - due to happen at my local station last year, but paused indefinitely, so now the local service is worse. Lots of empty promises for Scotland, Wales and N Ireland.

We could go on. As I have said, Manifestos aren't legally binding, they are something of a wish list. Once in Government all parties scrap some bits without a second thought and introduce other laws which weren't in the Manifesto.

[Peregrina]

And since you did fall for it surferjet, (the one who was singing the praises of Theresa May not so very long ago), we now are likely to have no say in what happens in the EU. We had already opted out of the Eurozone and as for reform well, they will be able to get on without the UK whinging and whinging for special deals.

[1tisILeClerc]

And the UK gets from the Tories:
'F%ck business'
Increased tariffs
Piss off possible trade partners so that they are lining up to refuse.
Continue to fund 'white Elephant' vanity projects while ignoring the poorer people in society.
Increase red tape (if it wants to trade with anybody).
Force massive infrastructure and personnel costs to facilitate new customs arrangements.
Withdraw all MEPs so there will be no representation in Europe.

'Vote arse' your grandkids may get over it and speak to you.

[Peregrina]

The promise was to cut red tape of course. What wasn't obvious because it was in invisible ink, is that any reforms are only for the wealthy - they have to have their paths smoothed, the rest of us can go hang.

[bellinisurge]

@surferjet , well done googling the 2015 Tory manifesto committing it to a referendum.
Here's a Tory PM after the previous referendum.

[surferjet]

Have you had that pinned up next to your bed?

[Moussemoose]

Sure as fuck You haven't.

[mostdays]

"remaniacs"

Yes, clearly a post aiming to start respectful discussion .

[frumpety]

give you a say over whether we should stay in or leave the EU, with an in-out referendum Fair play they gave you that.

[frumpety]

commit to keeping the pound and staying out of the Eurozone
reform the workings of the EU, which is too big, too bossy and too bureaucratic
reclaim power from Brussels on your behalf and safeguard British interests
back businesses to create jobs in Britain by completing ambitious trade deals and reducing red tape


^^ All of which sounds like they were actually expecting to remain in the EU ? Ooops ! Somebody only went and blew the bloody doors off