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Brexit

Westministenders: Reality Bytes

985 replies

RedToothBrush · 01/11/2018 22:39

Tonight the Corbyn and McDonnell Labour Party supported the Tory Party in improving the tax allowance for higher rate tax payers.

Yes you read that right. Did you even blink?

You've been so conditioned into seeing non existant opposition which seems to go against everything the Labour Party stand for that you no longer are shocked.

That's what 2 and a half years of Brexit has done to you.

You no longer care that Boris Johnson got £14,000 from the Saudis a couple of days before the Khashoggi murder. You know longer care that the former Defence Secretary is employed for £75,000 a year to advise a major Saudi Investor.

You are just happy that Trump hasn't started a war with Iran or North Korea yet. And hasn't started a civil war. (Though he's trying hard and next week is his best opportunity to stir it all up). You aren't surprised to hear that predictions are that the Democrats will fail to make gains in the mid terms.

You've suffered the 4657 story about how Therea May is just about to be challenged for the leadership.

You've heard about the squad set up at the Home Office to clear up all the cases the media get their hands on as the latest burning injustice. You are hearing that EU nationals who have been promised they are 'safe' are being subjected to questions about their right to stay. And you just shrug and say, "Yeah well thats the Home Office for you. The Bastards". And you do mean it, but you are so jaded by it all. And you worry that another 12 months from now, you won't even be interested in another story like that, and the press will stop printing them as they no longer interest the reader. What happens to your friends, your family, or even you then? Who is going to care then?

And then you have today.

A day where you hear that Bannon is being investigated by the Senate Intel Committee, Farage has been upgraded to the FBI's Really Naughty List and Banks has (FINALLY) been refered to the NCA. (We were only speculating on the possibility, on the 26th March...)

And you go 'Ooooooooo maybe there is hope'.

Maybe we COULD remain in the EU and avoid Turnip Soup and wiping your arse with leaves because of the national bog roll shortage. Or at least get a decent deal which suits us as a nation. Maybe, just maybe!

And that lasts for about 2 minutes before you log into twitter and the very first thing you see this:

Tom Newton Dunn @tnewtondunn
Excl: David Cameron tells friends he’d like a return to frontline politics, and fancies Foreign Secretary
www.thesun.co.uk/news/7639377/david-cameron-return-to-politics/

And you let out a high pitched screech as if you are were a dying cat as you remember this is 2018, and it just wants to beat the life out of you.

On the plus side, it shows you do still care enough to think 'Don't let that fucking bastard anywhere near power ever, ever again.'.

Ho hum.

Keep on, keeping on. Don't let the bastards win.
Keep caring. It matters.

OP posts:
Thread gallery
44
mathanxiety · 04/11/2018 23:41

www.belfasttelegraph.co.uk/news/brexit/report-of-secret-brexit-deal-unhelpful-commentary-says-simon-coveney-37491223.html

This is the entire article:
EU support remains "unwavering" and no private concessions have been made on the Irish border, Foreign Affairs Minister Simon Coveney has said.

Mr Coveney was speaking after The Sunday Times reported on Prime Minister Theresa May's "secret plan" to secure a Brexit deal, which would get support from Remain and Brexit MPs.

The article claimed Mrs May had "secured private concessions from Brussels that will allow her to keep the whole of Britain in a customs union, avoiding a hard border in Ireland".

The article also quoted a "senior Whitehall source" as saying "Ireland is f***" in a new deal which the newspaper claims Mrs May will be unveiling soon, and is confident can attract support from parliament.

Mr Coveney said the article was written with a British audience in mind and such "running commentary" isn't helpful.

"The EU27 has been united through the Brexit process. The UK has given written commitments last December and March that the Withdrawal Agreement will give a legal guarantee of no return to a hard border in Ireland in any circumstance - this is the backstop," Mr Coveney said.

"In March the UK agreed this backstop will apply 'unless and until' a close future relationship eliminates any need for border infrastructure or related checks and controls. We want the EU and UK to get to negotiating that close future deal but the UK must first deliver on the commitments of leaving.

"The EU support to Ireland has been and remains unwavering.

"The negotiators are working hard and a running commentary isn’t helpful. Today’s Sunday Times piece is obviously aimed at a UK audience.

"However Donald Tusk, Michel Barnier, Jean Claude Juncker and indeed Theresa May herself, have all said there will not be a deal without a legal guarantee of no hard border in Ireland.

"We hope a deal can be done but we’re not there yet.”

The Times' article states the EU will write an all-UK customs deal into the legally binding withdrawal agreement from the EU. If this happens, the backstop - designed by the EU and which treats Northern Ireland as different from the rest of the UK - will no longer be required.

It also claims Theresa May is on course to securing a Canada-style trade deal.

A senior Whitehall source told the paper: "The PM will be able to say there's no more backstop, we've got rid of that - success. There's an exit mechanism - success. And you've got Canada - success. The small print is that Ireland is f***".

............

Hazardswan · 05/11/2018 00:20

Here's hoping clarity emerges over the next few days, didnt Ireland say we have a week or so for a deal to be negociated? I can't see a Canada style deal getting through parliament if Labour sticks to the 'pillars', if rumours of a cross party movement for remain/people's vote or a new party are true. But stranger things have happened

Mrsr8 · 05/11/2018 07:46

This reply has been deleted

Message withdrawn at poster's request.

RedToothBrush · 05/11/2018 07:54

Remember, remember the fifth of November,
Gunpowder treason and plot.
We see no reason
Why gunpowder treason
Should ever be forgot!

OP posts:
RedToothBrush · 05/11/2018 08:10

Garvan Walshe @garvanwalshe
There is a theory doing the rounds that Raab is more interested in sabotaging the negotiations, blaming it on May and seeking to replace her, but that is you know just a theory...

David Aaronovitch @ daaronovitch
Enter the Raaboteur.

OP posts:
HesterThrale · 05/11/2018 09:02

Channel 4 doing a big Brexit programme tonight at 8pm. ‘Brexit: What the Nation Really Thinks.’

Channel 4 has commissioned the largest independent survey of attitudes to Brexit across the whole country since the referendum. We discuss the results with politicians and a live studio audience.

www.channel4.com/programmes/brexit-what-the-nation-really-thinks

Peregrina · 05/11/2018 09:07

Well, even if that shows that 70% of the population want to pause or stop Brexit, May will still babble on about the will of the people from 2016.

RedToothBrush · 05/11/2018 09:34

FT Big Read:

www.ft.com/content/4610a4be-dde2-11e8-9f04-38d397e6661c?desktop=true&segmentId=d8d3e364-5197-20eb-17cf-2437841d178a#myft:notification:instant-email:content
Arron Banks and the mystery Brexit campaign funds
The UK National Crime Agency is investigating whether the insurance executive was the true source of an £8m donation to a campaign to leave the EU

Westministenders: Reality Bytes
OP posts:
RedToothBrush · 05/11/2018 09:39

Laura Kuenssberg @bbclaurak
Laura Kuenssberg Retweeted Sabine Weyand
Ireland's robust message repeated by senior EU negotiator - don't think Raab will be booking his eurostar tickets quite yet

Sabine Weyand @WeyandSabine
Still necessary to repeat this, it seems.

Simon Coveney @simoncoveney
The Irish position remains consistent and v clear⁩ that a “time-limited backstop” or a backstop that could be ended by UK unilaterally would never be agreed to by IRE or EU. These ideas are not backstops at all + don’t deliver on previous UK commitments ⁦⁦#Brexit

Laura Kuenssberg @bbclaurak
1. No one has quite got their fingers on the Holy Grail yet .... Ireland distancing themselves from idea that a deal, secret or otherwise, is somehow there - see this deep disagreement on how you get the UK's longed for 'finality' into the backstop
2. Talks still stuck on backstop mechanism - if there's to be a November summit, then senior sources say there has to be 'decisive' progress this week - both sides have to be sure that the makings of a deal are there or Tusk won't press the button
3. It does feel like tempo is quickening - but it is more than a question of dotting I's and crossing Ts - both practical negotiations and political willingness to accept what might be unpalatable to some
4. Last week UK govt made plain to EU they couldn't get deal through Parly without limit on backstop - EU pushed back saying time limited backstop isn't a backstop at all - idea of 2 backstops on table, but needs an awful lot of soft soaping to make it politically possible

Tick tick tick.

OP posts:
RedToothBrush · 05/11/2018 09:41

www.thesun.co.uk/news/7657988/boris-johnson-urgers-ministers-to-throw-out-theresa-may-brexit-deal/
Boris Johnson urges ministers to throw out Theresa May’s ‘appalling’ Brexit proposals before Cabinet showdown

The Leave campaigner's powerful intervention came as it was rumoured the PM has made 'a secret Brexit deal' that would see Britain locked in a customs union

www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-politics-46091134?ns_campaign=bbc_politics&ns_mchannel=social&ns_linkname=news_central&ns_source=twitter
Brexit: Top lawyers say another EU vote is 'democratic'

We look so close to a deal, don't we?

OP posts:
woman11017 · 05/11/2018 09:44

@peterjukes
Actually, there’s FIVE agencies potentially involved. We have the ICO reporting on Tuesday and the Met are investigating a criminal referral from the electoral commission into Leave EU’s spending declarations.

@peterjukes
BREAKING: sources close to Arron Banks suggest he is expecting an investigation from the Serious Fraud Office. That would be THREE agencies now involved, after the @NCA_UK and FCA

DGRossetti · 05/11/2018 09:59

Last week UK govt made plain to EU they couldn't get deal through Parly without limit on backstop

Not really an EU problem though, is it ?

And regardless of whatever planet team Brexit are on, surely Ireland would have a veto on any deal Barnier brings back to the EU ? Unlike the UK would can quite happily stitch up Scotland without any need to consult with her, the EU can't do a secret deal behind closed doors involving one of it's members.

Or have I misunderstood something ?

woman11017 · 05/11/2018 10:06

Choreography of fake 'deal' is utterly pointless to even engage in.

More idiot fodder.

We are now in the countdown to complete fascism and chaos.

Ooh and a mercenary army.

What fun.

www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-46092838

Quietrebel · 05/11/2018 10:26

To be fair, the concept isn't new. France has a foreign legion for example.

borntobequiet · 05/11/2018 10:32

We used to get lots of young people (well, mostly boys) in school who joined the Forces. For many it was the making of them. I don't think it's happening any more - why?

Quietrebel · 05/11/2018 10:55

We used to get lots of young people (well, mostly boys) in school who joined the Forces. For many it was the making of them.

Could it be that as the Iraq war really hurt the credibility of government, young people don't want to get into unethical wars and don't see it as a worthy option anymore? Also because the Army needs a better budget to look after its forces and veterans better? Is the pay good enough? I'd tie it to an image problem and also less importance attached to patriotism. To convince someone to commit to the Army, I think you need prestige, pay and patriotism.
Could it be all three aspects are somewhat lacking nowadays?

1tisILeClerc · 05/11/2018 11:04

Born
I am guessing that 30 or 40 years ago the world was 'safer' for new recruits, and they would be relatively well armed compared to many they envisaged 'fighting'.
Although 'suicide' bombing was a possibility it was not (I believe) a widespread tactic. Modern communications, drugs and easy accessibility to very sophisticated arms have made it a much more dangerous career. It is very difficult to defend against kids, drugged to the eyeballs armed with an AK47 and encouraged to kill anything or anybody they fancy, even family and former friends. Lord of the flies but with high powered weapons.

DGRossetti · 05/11/2018 11:05

We used to get lots of young people (well, mostly boys) in school who joined the Forces. For many it was the making of them. I don't think it's happening any more - why?

Maybe the endless glorification of WW2 hammered home how the modern army has fuck all to do with "defending you country" (as it evidently was in WW2) and more about becoming simple mercenaries with a nice hat ?

The only real extra territorial engagement I could sign up for in the past 18 years is Afghanistan - by being there, the British Army was hopefully preventing a flow of trained terrorists coming to the UK. Everything else was really boys own stuff.

Maybe we should revert to the old system where multinational corporations had their own armies (East India company). Seems more honest somehow. Also the idea of the 1st Apple Battalion trying to engage the enemy with rounded edges, a notch, and superior connectivity is something the world really needs to see.

I wonder what British companies could form their own armies ? Obvious the few that are left. Maybe a John Lewis navy ? With matching tablecloths in the mess ? Howabout a Debenhams destroyer ? A Primark platoon ? The Tesco tank battalion ? Sainsburys special forces ?

It's almost as if my MP accused me of not taking things seriously, just so I could reply "well you started it."

ElenadeClermont · 05/11/2018 11:06

It must be the pay. It is still a very popular career choice in the North East.

lonelyplanetmum · 05/11/2018 11:11

Foreign nationals living abroad will be allowed to join Britain's Armed Forces...

This is absurd to be recruiting in this way- it is also direct result of austerity. Swathes of redundancies were made from the armed forces -loads of them.

Since 2011, 12,130 military personnel have had redundancy payments from the public purse.

As a cost cutting measure it was absurdly decided to replace loads of them with reservists. Then the reservists just didn't materialise. Remember all those radio ads about the fun of joining up...which I read somewhere produced 12 volunteers!

Anyway the govt pressure on the MOD to use reservists failed spectacularly to attract enough troops -and so now we want to recruit foreigners instead? It's ridiculous.

Like the swathes of civil service and local government redundancies as a result of austerity. Significant redundancy payments. And now there's been full on recruitment to attract endless Brexit civil servants for new government departments and divisions.

A litany of errors indeed..

www.theguardian.com/uk-news/2014/jun/12/mod-military-personnel-made-redundant

DGRossetti · 05/11/2018 11:19

Personally the smaller and less well equipped army we have, the less damage we can do around the globe.

I know it's probably a bit controversial, but I don't like wars. Especially ones fought in my name.

DGRossetti · 05/11/2018 11:22

www.bbc.co.uk/news/live/uk-england-birmingham-46069692

As well as shutting its Solihull plant for a fortnight, Jaguar Land Rover has put workers at its Castle Bromwich site on a three-day week.

David Bailey, professor of industrial strategy at Aston Business School, reckons that there will be job cuts.

He says: "They are looking to cut £2.5bn in terms of cost so they are reducing investment which is not a good sign when it is developing new technologies.

"I think it is inevitable, given the scale of that cost reduction that we won't see further job losses. We saw job losses earlier this year. Sadly I expect to see more in the new year."

WorriedMutha · 05/11/2018 11:41

If you are on twitter, follow Tony Connelly. Here's a cut and paste

Here's my latest on Brexit, having spoken to various officials this morning:
There's growing pessimism about a breakthrough this week, basically because London is still "negotiating with itself", or "test balloons are being floated above the Thames", as one diplomat put it
The negotiators are not back in Brussels yet, so member states can not be fully briefed, and the "tunnel" still holds its mysteries... However, there appear to be three fundamental points of contention...
London wants the UK-wide customs arrangement to be the one and only backstop, although it accepts there would have to be special add-ons for NI. In other words, a customs union will only deal with some of the controls, it won't deal with SPS and related checks...
Dublin and the EU Task Force are still insisting on a Northern Ireland-specific backstop as a final safety net if the UK-wide customs arrangement doesn't work.
One Irish source says: "There’s no question of subordinating or dissolving the NI backstop. It must be legally operable, and it must apply unless and until [something else comes along]. There’s absolutely no change in our position, there’s no change in the EU’s position."
So these are two major points of contention: will the NI-specific backstop be replaced, or "dissolved" by a UK-wide customs backstop with regulatory bolt-ons for NI? Or will the NI-specific backstop, the "all weather" backstop, still have to feature in the text?
The big question is whether or not the UK insists on a time-limit or a "termination clause" for the UK-wide customs backstop. Essentially, the more London insists on a termination clause, the stronger the need for the NI-specific backstop to remain, according to one source.

ElenadeClermont · 05/11/2018 11:42

DGR I should be screaming 'I told you so' at so many family members, but I just feel sad for them.
(Said family members happily gambled with DH, DS and my future though.)

Tanith · 05/11/2018 12:09

When my dad joined the Army, it was a stark choice between the local farm or a trained, professional career in the Army.
He and his brothers - all but one - chose the Army.

Since those days, stories of substandard housing, poor education, citizenship of children born abroad have all been publicised. Add to that the increased likelihood of seeing military action, the reputation of the Armed Forces over Ireland, Afghanistan and Iraq, among others, and you understand why many young people with a better alternative do not join the Army.