Charting our nemesis

[lonelyplanetmum]

Which chart encapsulates this nightmare for you?

This is the pie chart that I showed my FIL when he was repeating Farage’s drivel. The government’s own 2016 figures showed how statistically insignificant our EU budget percentage contribution always was.

Also GDP is meaningless. GDP per capita is more meaningful.
A rapacious EU multinational like Greencore increases GDP. Greencore, who hire Hungarians to work for the minimum wage in Northampton - subsidised by in work benefits paid for by ordinary tax payers - while the CEO earns 3.6 million.
If they closed GDP would fall but I would not lament the loss. Those charts contain data supplied by companies like that.

. Chart showing the global agility we had ( past tense) from trade agreements around the world thanks to our leading role in the EU.

I'm not sure why individual criticisms of one large Irish convenience food company have crept into a thread for charts. Probably best to start your own thread about any individual company.

Until we voted to ditch our membership of an extremely lucrative trading bloc we had trade deals covering most of the globe and unrestricted access to trade with millions of international companies.

If there’s concern about the practices of any one multinational company surely the US ones are more concerning.

Trump’s biggest donor of course was Robert Mercer ( worth $ 900 million +) . His interference ranged from the far-right toxic Brietbart to funding interference into British politics. More worrying than one Irish food company imo.

Democracy, or good democracy, is much more complicated and nuanced than biggest always wins

Fairest way is to act upon the majority. If someone can explain why minority opinion should prevail over majority I am interested to hear. If correct then why is it that in general elections the party with the least number of votes is not placed in power?

whatukthinks.org/eu/has-there-been-a-shift-in-support-for-brexit

Reading this suggests that if there was another vote the result might be

52% remain

48 leave

A reversal of the 2016 result. However, I have the following questions:

If 52% leave is not considered the will of the people how can 52% remain be considered the will of the people?

Why would 52% remain be considered binding in a second vote, but 52% leave in the 2016 vote not be considered binding?

If the outcome of a second referendum is 52% remain and 48% leave should there not be a 3rd referendum?

. Can we keep this thread for charts please. Happy for you to start a separate thread for debating the issues the charts illustrate.

In the last quarter 41% thought the Leave vote was correct and 47% believed it was wrong (Yougov)
The problem is both politicians and people don’t know what to do next.

I agree we need more consensus. A huge change to our economy and trading relationships needs a greater percentage of people to actively support it (and a solution for NI).

If both the timing was right and the benefits of the change were clear then there would be greater unanimity. There wasn't and still isn't.

At least with the pre 2016 status quo the trading relationship was something people can and did tolerate. It's the fall back position until greater consensus is reached on something else.

As the previous chart shows before the ref fewer than 6 per cent of those polled cared about the EU anyway.

What we need is more consensus.

https://www.seedsforchange.org.uk/consensus

{Sorry to bang on about Greencore by the way. It's just that it epitomises everything I loath about the rapacious EU multinationals that contribute to the data in your charts.}
This is exactly what the UK has been doing for centuries, manipulating the markets and workers. Now it is 'foreign' companies that have bought out UK companies (giving the owners a lot of money).
The UK is getting a taste of it's own medicine.

Sorry Lonely, I have no chart for this, maybe a picture of a cat eating a mouse would suffice?

Britons (and the population of the UK) have always been mongrels so 'demonising' anyone is simply wrong.
Do you think that the UK is being 'persecuted' by the EU? When the UK ruled nearly half the planet, how do you think this was achieved? It was by killing, torturing and stealing, the same way as most empires are 'built'.

Good point LeClerc.

Wasn’t the ‘honourable’ East India Company the genesis of multinationals?

An English company that ended up taking control of the Indian subcontinent, parts of South East Asia and Hong Kong. This lead to empire, globalisation and of course the non EU immigration over the last century.

It’s shifted today though- it’s the US companies that have a vice like political influence and aspiration. The statistics for the political influence and expenditure of the Koch brothers and the Mercers are mind blowing.

The UK won't be a 'partner' with the USA when it leaves, it will be treated like Puerto Rico as a remote 51st(?) state.
The UK simply doesn't have sufficient resources to be a major player on it's own, certainly not being in full control. Being part of the EU where the life expectations are broadly similar and being a strong influence at the 'top table' means a lot more than some give credit to.

These two charts of Foreign Direct Investment are an interesting contrast. They don't suggest that the UK is "open for business" in the eyes of the world, compared to Germany ( in the EU)

lonelyplanetmum
The majority view has now shifted

The shift to Remain is too reliant on people who did not vote in the 2016 referendum...

Copied from your link;

"Nobody should assert on the basis of the analysis in this blog that it is now clear that the outcome of a second referendum would be different from that of the first."

"Given the potential difficulties that faces all polling, the Remain lead is both too narrow and too reliant on the views of those who did not vote in June 2016 (who might or might not vote in another ballot) for anything other than caution to be the order of the day."

"Even if the polls are entirely accurate, such a narrow lead might still be overturned if Leave were to fight the better campaign–as they are widely adjudged to have done in 2016."

These two charts of Foreign Direct Investment are an interesting contrast. They don't suggest that the UK is "open for business" in the eyes of the world

Well, that's obvious - nobody knows if we are leaving the EU or not - indecision is the enemy of investment.

Yay - charts.

Very interesting to compare the first ONS chart post referendum with the second Deutsche bank one.

Nice chart from the Institute for Government on the time taken to conclude trade agreements vs the Brexit transition period.

Hmmm why have Clav/Lucy and Leavor have suddenly started numerous posts on my quiet slow moving chart thread.

Anyone would think facts were a threat. Numerous studies show facts are fairly irrelevant anyway!

Blimey thanks for that one Mistigri

Daunting to think we are at the start of the process.

lonelyplanetmum
Very interesting to compare the first ONS chart post referendum with the second Deutsche bank one.

Feb 2019;

“The start of the German economy into 2019 has been a major disappointment so far,” Deutsche Bank economists including Sebastian Becker wrote in a report on Tuesday."

“The development of several key cyclical indicators is telling us that the German economy is drifting towards recession right now.”

"The warning from Germany’s biggest bank comes just days after Bundesbank President Jens Weidmann said economic weakness carried into 2019 and will result in significantly lower growth than predicted just a few weeks ago.The government in Berlin also recently cut its 2019 outlook almost in half and IHS Markit’s January survey showed manufacturing in Germany shrank for the first time in four years."

"Hmmm why have Clav/Lucy and Leavor have suddenly started numerous posts on my quiet slow moving chart thread."

No idea who Lucy and Leavor are - but you and I have been sparring on and off for months. It is the school holidays by the way - I am allowed some time off with the sprogs...

This is a nice map which kind of helps to explain the leave vote in northern England - lack of infrastructure investment by the U.K. govt means that it is poorly connected to other parts of the U.K. and Europe.

It takes 2 hours to get from Bordeaux to Paris (600km), 3 hours to get from Newcastle to London (450km).

Just read the posts by lucyinthefry - she clearly knows more about economics than me (and you obviously).

she clearly knows more about economics

And yet she does not understand multipliers. (This is not even A level economics).

Not a chart, but a visual and thoroughly European depiction of the relationship between Mr Farage and the BBC

Mistigri

I've always enjoyed political cartoons - is the Cartoon Museum still in Convent Garden?

Some people don't like them;

MEPs censor anti-EU cartoons from European Parliament exhibition

"Anti-EU cartoons about Brexit and the Greek crisis have been censored from an exhibition in the European Parliament by MEPs, sparking a row over free speech in Brussels."

"Catherine Bearder, the Liberal Democrats’ only MEP, blocked 12 of 28 cartoons by Greek and French cartoonists submitted for display in Brussels next week to mark the 60th anniversary years of the signing of the Treaty of Rome."

"Most of the cartoons criticise the EU and Germany’s handling of the Greek crisis.One showing EU leaders on a plane with Britain outside chopping off the wing also fell foul of the euro-censors."

www.telegraph.co.uk/news/2017/09/18/meps-censor-anti-eu-cartoons-european-parliament-exhibition/

European Parliament censors exhibition of political cartoons

www.neweurope.eu/article/european-parliament-censors-exhibition-political-cartoons/