Canada +++

[bridgetoc]

We must tread with caution with regards to anything Tusk says. However, it appears that Canada +++ is very much on the table, unlike what remainer PM May has suggested. It's been there since the start according to Tusk.

What a nightmare it must be for The PM. It's one thing if the Brexiteers are asking for it, but so are the E.U.........

The Remainers will try their best to sweep this under the carpet.......

@LouiseCollins28 - elected.representatives who believe that humans and dinosaurs coexisted don't really deserve respect.
I don't want to break up the uk either but this is a consequence of Brexit if Scotland and NI voted Remain. Contrary to what the DUP campaigned for.

Freedom is only relative as no one on earth can truly do whatever they like without paying tax or answering to somebody. Even N Korea with a dictatorship actually NEEDS others.

Calling people "Neanderthals" is seriously unhelpful to put it very mildly

There’s good evidence Neanderthals were intelligent. It’s very likely you and your kids have Neanderthal DNA —misses point of thread—

Really can't see her rescinding Article 50. She is largely controlled by the hard right, who want a very hard Brexit. So no deal. Unless the DuP can be persuaded to accept the NI backstop. After all, we're told that there is technology just around the corner which would enable a soft border between NI and RoI, so the backstop could be short term only. Though I suspect NI would stay in the CU and SM longterm, once the Tories no longer needed DUP support.

@MyBrexitUnicornDied - actually you are right. Calling these idiots Neanderthals is doing Neanderthals a disservice.

I still don't think it will happen but admit there is a chance.

I think the UK would have to eat a very large slice of Humble Pie. I believe we could withdraw A50 and then we would keep the same deals we have at present. But any fresh demands for special treatment would get a 'Go Whistle' response, I feel.

Why does TM need the DUP to get a deal through parliament? If it's a decent one, Labour will vote for it. Even the SNP might be persuaded if it's more EEA-like. Better than crashing out with no deal anyway and then the arguments can start all over again during the transition.

As I've said before, I think it flies in the face of reality not to treat NI as being different, whatever the DUP thinks. Nearly everyone in NI is entitled to an Irish passport, or is an EU citizen anyway eg if they are Polish. So you have a non-EU territory full of EU citizens. How can that not be different?

However, I would favour the UK as a whole staying in the EEA or at the very least the customs union. Customs union plus Canada + might not be too terrible,

TM needs to DUP to remain in government - if she loses their support over Brexit she's screwed on anything else as she won't have a majority.

@bridgetoc

How will Canada+++ avoid non-tarriff barriers damaging JIT manufacturers and other operators reliant on zero border controls. As you note, it also doesn't resolve the NI border issue without implementing controls in British ports or implementing one of the other more technologically ambitious options for border controls.

Why would we push Canada when it would substantially damage the UK automotive industry (100,000s jobs)?

It is a trade off between ideology and practicality, giver the situation in the 'modern' world.
Canada, with as many pluses as you like, won't get around the 'practicality' aspect.

Given not giver!

All this despite the party voting in favour of holding the referendum in June 2015 and mostly in favour of invoking Article 50.

It's almost as if things have moved on, isn't it ?

So, if TM can't get Canada+++ through Commons are we left with leaving without a deal or TM rescinding Article 50?

@HurricaneFloss at that point we're into the endgame and I don't think anyone knows how it plays out ... it's likely that the markets' reaction would result in the government looking at rescinding A50 (if it can do this - we don't know yet but we should find out soon) or asking for an extension of the A50 period (would the EU agree?), but there are no guarantees.

But if TM can't get a deal through the Commons despite having a majority (if you include the DUP), then I think blaming Labour, as some people seem curiously keen to do, is a bit odd. It's May's job to sell her deal to her party and its allies. It's the opposition's job to oppose, if they believe this is in the country's interests.

From the Labour point of view - and I'm talking about the mostly remain-supporting MPs here not the leadership - a choice between Canada and no deal is a choice between a cliff edge in December 2020 and a cliff edge in March 2019. You're still going over the edge, you just have a longer run up. I wouldn't blame them for voting against.

Why would we push Canada when it would substantially damage the UK automotive industry (100,000s jobs)?

Because it suits a small number of rich Tories and they have persuaded the racists and the hard of thinking to go along with them?

If it's a decent one, Labour will vote for it. Even the SNP might be persuaded if it's more EEA-like. Better than crashing out with no deal anyway and then the arguments can start all over again during the transition.

How can Labour, with their six (is it six?) tests support a Tory-engineered Brexit that will destroy jobs in Labour constituencies?

Norway + would pass the tests and I think labour would vote for it. They won't get that opportunity though.

A communication from the French government today saying that they are trying to ensure Brits in France are given a welcome to stay with as little hassle as possible. Would be good to have it in hard print but sounds good so far.

Labour pretty much promised to oppose anything Tories proposed.
December general election, anyone?