Labour's plans to negotiate with the EU.

[Doubletrouble99]

Having just heard JC about how the labour party would be able to negotiate with the EU can someone tell me just exactly how they would solve all the 'unsolvable' problems there is currently with the negotiations.
He was full of very general ideas but absolutely none as to how to solve the NI border problem for instance.

The Labour Party generally want to remain in SM/CU (except JC)

That solves the border issue.

Yes, by remaining in the CM. This would solve the issues caused by leaving.

Yes but they want to stay in the CM but not have FOM. The EU wouldn't countenance that - cherry picking and all that.

With the developments in the EU over the last 10 years or so I would expect there could be some 'wriggle room' on FoM as the war in Syria and N Africa has changed the situation considerably since the FoM rules were originally proposed. Other EU27 are at least 'concerned' so a bit of rewriting and tightening may be on the way.
Insisting that the UK has ID cards would help and actually implementing rules that already exist.

It can't happen. The Swiss people voted to stop freedom of movement as part of their bi lateral agreements, and were told by their government at the end of the two years that it just couldn't be done if they wanted to continuing having access to the CM.

It's the EU's basic principles, and I don't agree that there will be 'wiggle room'.

Someone just needs to man up and actually say this to the British public.

They could get round the FoM issue by implementing rules which already exist of removing people if they don't have jobs within a certain time. That would get round the 'they come over here taking our benefits' line. Admittedly, this won't help with the '..and taking our jobs' bit of the same sentence.

They would get a long way by just being more reasonable than Theresa May and looking for areas on which agreement can be sought, not on areas where they can pick a fight and then whine about being bullied when they come off worse in the fight.

No, I am not a Labour supporter, but can they be any more shambolic than what we have at present?

You need to consider that everyone who has a smartphone is tracked constantly. The data on where all phones (and by extension their owners) exists now so if your phone is in your pocket, even nipping into your back garden is recorded.

Unfortunately whatever flavour of Brexit that might happen will not 'solve' the major cause of it, that the UK has become segregated in terms of available standards of living, meaning that old industrial areas have been abandoned in favour of shiny new jobs in the SE (typically).
It is not unique to the UK of course.
No one is really saying that they will fix it.

So if we kept with CM how would we be able to do our own trade deals out with the EU?
Believe me JC could definitely be worse than the present situation. He can't even make a decision on his own about the most basic thing - think about the anti Semitic situation in the labour party and how badly that is being handled.
Having listened to the labour interviews this morning I was particularly struck at the way in which none of them would proffer an opinion, all they would say was that it was up to conference to decide on everything!!

FOM is just a fudge anyway. We could always have controlled it more than we did so we could remain in the SM/CU and spin these great controls to restrict immigration and sadly, those who voted for Brexit, would be none the wiser and would lap it up.

so if we kept with CM how would we be able to do our own trade deals out with the EU?

Name one single country we cannot make a trade deal with now and what we would want to trade with them?

Labour want just as big a slice of cake as the Tories, they are just cutting it differently.

Notably they want SM/CU benefits without FoM (kind of Chequers++). Which obvious isn't on the menu.

I think the shadow cabinet is actually more deluded than the actual cabinet, without one or two exceptions.

Labour just want to have a different cake and eat it. Corbyn is a shit on so many other issues, this is just another example of how shit he is.

Staying in a CU solves NI, and we d instantly keep the dozens of FTA's the EU currently has, eg Germany sells 4x as much to China whilst in the EU, we could do far far better and keep our European market.

FOM is a bigger issue BUT isn't that what negotiations are all about? the big problem with May was she took all the things we all need to talk about off the table.

Couldn't agree more Misti and Bellini. JC and labour are completely deluded. They really haven't a clue if they think their way of negotiating is going to be better. We will be totally sold down the river.

But jasjas why would be do better than we are now with trade to the likes of China when we haven't before?

@Double, We wouldn't we'd do less well.

My point is that leaving the EU wont transform us into an exporting super power (though do very well) but we can improve our industrial manufacturing whilst stayig the eu, as Germany has done.

I do accept that leaving the EU might make us focus more on exporting as we'd have no choice but our issues are skills, education and long term investment, none of which the Tories are talking about improving, in fact cutting budgets.

JC wants to introduce life long learning, a fantastic idea which they just don't talk up enough.

So labour may offer a people's vote but with with no option to remain !!!
https://www.independent.co.uk/news/uk/politics/brexit-second-referendum-options-choice-exclude-remain-eu-len-mccluskey-labour-a8551086.html?amp&twitterr_impression=true

Jasjas, my point is that since we haven't bothered to do any of these things in the last 40 years in the EU why on earth would we start now ?We need a jolt and something for politicians to 'blame' if any of their ideas go wrong so I feel Brexit will give them all a chance to change some fundamental things.
So if the second referendum with stay as an option is a no go for Labour then, just like the Chequers proposal it's dead in the water!!!!

What on earth makes you think that leaving the EU, and all the shit it will lead to, is going to make the government do anything about the issues it's repeatedly ignored.

This is the crux of the problem.

There's absolutely no logic in your train of thought.

Bear - As an example I want to see them change the agriculture policy with regard to subsidies and the fisheries policy too. I think they will be changed from everything we have seen so far.

There is a snag that to really prosper outside the EU (or any other trading bloc we might hitch up to) the UK will have to be better, cheaper and more productive than the EU and anywhere else.
The UK cannot feed itself so massive 'agriculture' is out. We don't have much in the way of natural resources (iron ore etc) and China and other places are almost giving it away. Banking, we will be losing passporting rights and the UK is nowhere big enough to compete now.
So, what is the UK going to do or make that is so much better than can be done in Europe or elsewhere?
The UK is good at 'hi tech' stuff BUT it needs big investments and extra 'brains' from collaborating with other countries, (immigration).

Up here in Scotland we have Whisky, Gin and Smoked Salmon which are big export commodities. In fact Whisky is 20% of all the UK's food exports. There are tariffs of up to 150% on Whisky and Gin in many countries so us negotiating a better deal in these countries would improve greatly our ability to increase our trade with them.

China the most important market for Scotch whiskey is 5%, down from 10%.
Which markets have 150% and why? is it to protect their own drinks industry?
The Scotch Whiskey association is worried they'll lose favourable access to all the EU FTA's we currently have.

Sorry meant a tariff of 5% down from 10%