to buy a fixer-upper in France before Brexit?

[arielmanto]

We have a small house with a mortgage in the UK, which we manage happily on my income. We bought it a year ago, mortgage rate is fixed for another 4 yrs.
Our long term (5 year ish from now) plan is to save up enough to buy a small house in Charente with a bit of land, as we have none here in the UK, living in the £££ south west. This area of France is very very cheap and we'd be looking at £40k for the kind of thing we could live in without having to renovate.
Brexit has put the willies up me (so to speak) about timing on this. We could, with a smallish loan, buy something for £30k cash now, and pay off the loan over the next 5 years.
Pros - would own before Brexit makes it undoubtedly harder to do so, loan rate is very very good at moment

Cons - Would have to buy somewhere needing work, which would be ok as we would be able to fix it up year on year - but would obviously be paying French taxes on it all that time too

I am going back and forth on this. I can understand that yes, people outside of the EU can buy property in France, but there are more hoops to jump through, more assessments to be done etc, and I really don't want the hassle.
I cannot see that after Brexit we would be penalised by the UK govt for owning property in France as that wouldn't be to the benefit of many of the wealthier people who wanted Brexit to happen and own second homes abroad. (Cynical, perhaps)

What thinks the hive mind?

There is a lot of risk: currency risk, access (if there is a no deal Brexit in March, are your local friends happy to supervise renovations until things have settled down?), restrictions on transferring money out of the UK... to be honest I think you would be mad to do it before you know what the final deal is.

Go for your life if you can afford it

Brexit may no doubt add some complications but in the end everyone will realise the mutual benefits so it will calm down over time

The same doom mongers were predicting a terrible state of affairs immediatly after the referendum with markets etc crashing which clearly hasnt happened

GDP down, currency down, but of course nothing really happened

And dick head Cameron said he would trigger article 50 immediately which didn’t happen. No deal will be far worse than project fear.

Do we just have to resign ourselves to be marrooned on this bloody archaic island?
Did people really think we were marooned before we joined ?

OP I don't know if this is helpful, but I have a house in France. The basic charges, rates, standing charges for electricity and so on cost about £1800 a year.

I remember trips to London from Greece before the EU. First we had t book tickets, take those to the bank to prove we were going abroad and the bank would give us the allocated allowance of currency, at passport control we’d have to show return tickets and proof of where we were going to stay, it was also advisable to have a recent bank statement showing funds in Greece as proof that we were not going to stay over. First thing we did when we landed was to eat bananas because they were amprotected Greek product and you were not allowed to import them. If we bought clothes etc my mum would take off labels and try to make them look worn, because there were long queues at custom at rentre where all the suitcases were searched for imports in order to charge tax.

Brexit, bring on the good old times.

I remember a boyfriend telling me how his parents had booked their train ticket right to the top of the Matterhorn railway via their travel agent, so that they didn't have to waste their meagre foreign currency allocation on buying the ticket locally. No spontaneous spending or trips - every penny allocated.

We are leaving the EU, not being transported back in time to the early 70s.

The general trend since the 70s has been for countries to relax visa requirements for tourists. The EU (and UK) currently allow citizens of a large number of countries, including places like El Salvador and East Timor, to enter visa-free for up to six months.

The UK and France might (and probably will) introduce work visas for each others citizens, but it would take an absolute worse case scenario for tourist visas to be re-introduced.

The UK and France might (and probably will) introduce work visas for each others citizens, but it would take an absolute worse case scenario for tourist visas to be re-introduced

Doesn't really matter. What matters is that if the pound tanks against the Euro, we won't be going anywhere on holiday beyond these shores.

The disaster capitalists will have made plenty of money and will have moved their funds off shore, so it doesn't really matter if the pound tanks - indeed they may make even more money from that

It's just the ordinary punters who will find their holidays much much more expensive - if they can afford to go abroad at all

We are leaving the EU, not being transported back in time to the early 70s.

This is so true!!! I’m non-EU and can assure you that travel is simple and easy as long as you have a passport from a “good” (read: rich) country. Being white property helps too.

Throughout the EU I get a three-month tourist visa issued on entry (nothing organised beforehand), and use my normal bank pass to take money out from a cashpoint at a decent rate. This was the case even before the Euro.

You don’t even need an international permit for driving these days, it’s so easy for the authorities to check the appearance and validity of modern licenses, and you can drive on them as a tourist for 3 to 6 months (depending).

I dare say the pet passport will remain too. If anyone pulls out of that agreement it will be the UK (rabies).

Lots of things will be harder but I can assure you that you’re not going to have to pop to Thomas Cook for visas and money exchange

*probably

Being white probably helps

Not “being white property helps”. FFS!

My (white, property owning) aunt in South Africa still has to jump through massive hoops to get a visa for a short holiday to the UK to see her brother

She actually had less difficulty getting a Schengen visa to visit her Danish relatives

flatpack
If you think that the borders will stay wide open, you misunderstand why the Brexit vote was about "taking back control"

You don’t even need an international permit for driving these days
and
I dare say the pet passport will remain too
IF you come from a country with a reciprocal treaty
but a hard Brexit would involve leaving all of those treaties.

From people I know who have done this, houses do not go up In value in rural France, regardless of Brexit this is unlikely to change. Do you propose to live in it and work locally, can you/OH get jobs, generally not much employment. Before the EU disaster loads of people lived in Europe, why would France not want U.K. people buying up unwanted property in the countryside?

prettybird SA is unfortunately not a “good” passport. I meant more like Australia, NZ, Canada, the US, Japan. Those of us who have one of those passports can generally just arrive at the UK border and get a six-month tourist visa. They usually give me the third degree though!

Talk I dare say I didn’t understand the implications of/reasons for the Brexit vote! I can’t argue with you there. Perhaps it will indeed be the case that the borders are essentially closed to Brits. I doubt it would last though - surely before long they would sort out the type of arrangement they have with the above mentioned countries? The UK won’t want to essentially shut itself off to tourism.

(FWIW I think Brexit is sheer folly.)

Flatpack
My non UK passport is a "good" passport.
You have a short memory about free movement. I did not go to France for ten years because of their visa rules
even though I lived in the UK

I don’t really know what to say, you sound quite hostile. I have trouble believing that anyone with one of the abovenamed passports has been unable to get into France in the past 20 years - but I’m not sure what we’re arguing about? Perhaps if you defined the terms of the discussion we could see where we disagree?

It doesn’t make an ounce of difference to me personally either way TBH, my freedom of movement won’t be affected.

Sensible to get your money out of the UK before Brexit. My parents are doing similar

flatpack
You are quite right - it was well over 20 years ago ...... before "free movement"
and before the EU signed visa treaties with every man and his dog

but I've been locked up by UK customs
not something one forgets

Brits have this astonishing arrogance that despite voting to "lick out forriners" they will still be welcome everywhere

its just not so

but I've been locked up by UK customs
not something one forgets

I should think not! Sounds really rather traumatic - they’re merely arrogant and rude towards me when I deal with them and that’s scary enough. I’ve had a number of unpleasant experiences but nothing more than that.

I’ve only been travelling independently these past 20 years so I agree with you, my knowledge is relatively recent.

I suppose time will tell. I agree with you that it’s almost certainly not going to be pretty. If you used the current situation as the basis for a dystopian novel it would be critically panned on the basis of being completely unbelievable!

Off topic but talk1npeace I snorted my tea at "lick out forriners". I should think everyone would be a good deal more relaxed if that was the case..

I think it would highly un advisable to buy in France at the moment (unless you have an EU passport).

Non EU nationals do own in France but they are limited to 90days max at a time with no return within 180 days.

Cheap houses are cheap for a reason. They are in areas with no employment and no services.

UK owners are leaving France in droves (if they can sell) residence permits are hard to get and rely on you being able to prove you can support yourself financially and that you can speak French. You would not have access to French health care and would have to pay private health insurance.

if you are looking to do it up and resell it, beware of French capital gains tax which is considerable and I’ll eat into your profits. Also in our area French buyers are not interested in old, character properties. They like new builds and it is economically feasible for young couples to buy a plot and build a small house themselves, so the renovated farmhouse is not really valued as much as it is in the UK. There are foreign buyers but this market is depressed

Prices aren't going up in the countryside. No capital gain, no capital gains tax, no problem.

As a pp has said, it's a good idea to get your money out of the UK. But if your intention is to divide your time between the UK and France, you need to factor in a massive devaluation of the pound along with all the other No Deal consequences. Maybe start by transferring money into a euro account and think about house buying later, if you're not actually planning to emigrate? A friend took a daytrip to Dublin and set up a euro account just like that. Then the money would be there, and could be converted back into sterling if your plans changed.

I like Charente, visited a ruin with nine acres for €50,000 back in 2015. It was too much for XDP and me with our non-existent DIY skills, but I still think of it fondly! Beautiful countryside.