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Original poster

to buy a fixer-upper in France before Brexit?

71 replies

arielmanto · 13/08/2018 11:12

We have a small house with a mortgage in the UK, which we manage happily on my income. We bought it a year ago, mortgage rate is fixed for another 4 yrs.
Our long term (5 year ish from now) plan is to save up enough to buy a small house in Charente with a bit of land, as we have none here in the UK, living in the £££ south west. This area of France is very very cheap and we'd be looking at £40k for the kind of thing we could live in without having to renovate.
Brexit has put the willies up me (so to speak) about timing on this. We could, with a smallish loan, buy something for £30k cash now, and pay off the loan over the next 5 years.
Pros - would own before Brexit makes it undoubtedly harder to do so, loan rate is very very good at moment

Cons - Would have to buy somewhere needing work, which would be ok as we would be able to fix it up year on year - but would obviously be paying French taxes on it all that time too

I am going back and forth on this. I can understand that yes, people outside of the EU can buy property in France, but there are more hoops to jump through, more assessments to be done etc, and I really don't want the hassle.
I cannot see that after Brexit we would be penalised by the UK govt for owning property in France as that wouldn't be to the benefit of many of the wealthier people who wanted Brexit to happen and own second homes abroad. (Cynical, perhaps)

What thinks the hive mind?

OP posts:
TokyoSushi · 13/08/2018 11:16

If you can afford it, go for it!

paap1975 · 13/08/2018 11:20

Plenty of non-EU people live in France now. Yes, there is admin to be done, which will be a pain, but if you can live with that, go for it!

JagerPlease · 13/08/2018 12:46

Would you be planning to live in the house in France at some stage? The only issue I can foresee is that we don't yet know what rights UK nationals will have in France post Brexit if they aren't living there beforehand. Going as a tourist is never realistically going to be a problem, but wanting to live there could well be

Booboostwo · 13/08/2018 13:03

What are your plans for this house? This is my experience of the southwest of France:

  • renovation costs are much higher in France than the UK, builders are less easy to get hold of and take a lot of holidays. If you buy an old property you may be landed with a few upgrade bills immediately, e.g. an old septic tank will need upgrading within a year of a property sale.
  • if you are looking to rent it out for extra income keep in mind that the holiday rental market is full of options and buyers can be quite demanding. You really need something special to guarantee a decent return from holiday rentals.
  • if you are looking to do it up and resell it, beware of French capital gains tax which is considerable and I’ll eat into your profits. Also in our area French buyers are not interested in old, character properties. They like new builds and it is economically feasible for young couples to buy a plot and build a small house themselves, so the renovated farmhouse is not really valued as much as it is in the UK. There are foreign buyers but this market is depressed and may get worse with more Brits looking to move back home.

As for living in France, I would highly recommend speaking French otherwise you may feel quite isolated, gettin expert tax advice before making the move and looking at financial implications of living in France from a non-EU country, e.g. you may need to have private health insurance which is very expensive.

P3onyPenny · 13/08/2018 13:21

The French don't need to be loyal to the UK,most of their tourism is French. You can't presume anything re Brexit,maybe the French would do the penalising. Who knows.

justilou1 · 13/08/2018 14:02

I also seem to remember something weird about French inheritance laws that exclude non-citizens - ergo, unless your kids are French, they can’t inherit.

daughterofanarchy · 13/08/2018 14:24

Go for it OP. I dream of doing something like that but I don’t have the money to, as I’m
In a minimum wage job. if you can comfortably do it- go For it! I’m excited for you!! Best of luck if you do go ahead.

Wallywobbles · 13/08/2018 14:31

@justilou1 that's not the case at all in France. It was something like that in Spain but that's not the case either.

Op I would recommend a mortgage through someone like Britline (English speaking agency of crédit agricole). Mine is 0.8% fixed rate. It's very low because it's a 7 year mortgage with a decent deposit but you'd be pushed to find a better deal. Stupidly I used a mortgage agent. But I shopped around as well and could have avoided the agents fees.

French mortgages are always fixed (pretty much).

deepsea · 13/08/2018 14:38

I think the french can be very fickle and they haven’t covered themselves in glory during negotiations to date.
I would wait actually to be on the safe side until everything is settled.

Apehouse · 13/08/2018 14:44

As another poster has mentioned, speaking French is important. French workmen are quite tricky to deal with and if you don’t speak the language they will walk all over you. (Some people get around that by using Polish workmen - not a bad plan.) Annual property taxes on an unrenovated place should not be huge. One thing to verify before you buy is exactly where the boundaries of the land are - there should be a surveyor’s map (plan de bornage), and that none of the neighbours is ‘accidentally ‘ occupying any of your land, since people somehow seem to think unoccupied land is fair game. If you buy, put boundary fences up.

LifeHackQueens · 13/08/2018 14:45

Is French citizenship or dual citizenship a possibility for you?

Apehouse · 13/08/2018 14:47

And calculate the land area for yourself from the surveyor’s plan - I noticed in time that the plot I was buying was 10% short. After buying, you can’t remedy that.

Shockers · 13/08/2018 14:50

We were looking to buy a flat in a small ski resort last year, but I’m quite worried where Brexit will leave us, so I’m waiting until I know exactly what the purchase entails.

MNHQ
AnyaMumsnet · 13/08/2018 14:51

Hi there everyone,

We think this should be in Brexit so we're moving it over now.

LeftRightCentre · 13/08/2018 14:54

I think the french can be very fickle and they haven’t covered themselves in glory during negotiations to date.

What were they supposed to do, bend over and applaud at our decision? I'd have told the UK to fuck off myself. I can't believe anyone thought the EU's reaction would be any different considering the number of concessions we already had.

As for the OP, nope, I wouldn't do it just now.

Original poster
arielmanto · 13/08/2018 20:01

Thanks all - that's a very mixed bag of responses!
We wouldn't be looking to make money out of the house, no resale, no rental. Just somewhere we could go for the weekend at the drop of a hat, or spend family holidays. I have 4 sisters so it would get a lot of use just through us!
I do speak French, and the purchase part itself doesn't worry me too much, we have friends (native French) in the area too who could help out with the fine print.
It's more the quick-do-it-now part I wanted opinions on - or the circumspect wait until after Brexit even though it might be harder to do.

OP posts:
prettybird · 13/08/2018 21:23

Given that the pound will definitely probably drop further, especially after a No Deal (which as Liam Fox himself says, now has a 60:40 probability Sad) or Hard Brexit, then unless you already have a € account, I'd buy sooner rather than later.

Wallywobbles · 13/08/2018 22:27

@Apehouse actually you can contest areas for a year after purchase and should've financially compensated.

Ta1kinpeace · 14/08/2018 15:35

How are you planning to travel there and back?

Just that if there is a no deal brexit

  • you'll need to get international driving licences
  • pet passports will go the way of the ark
  • visas for travel will come back in
  • phone roaming charges will come back in
  • the channel ports will be buggered for months
  • what will the currency controls across the EU border be ?

if there is a good Brexit deal (BINO) then you should be fine

Original poster
arielmanto · 14/08/2018 15:46

talk1npeace that honestly makes me want to cry - it's so depressing and I have absolutely no idea. Yes, we would drive. Do we just have to resign ourselves to be marrooned on this bloody archaic island?

OP posts:
Ta1kinpeace · 14/08/2018 15:49

arielmanto
I really, really hope that I'm wrong and that sense will prevail
but as they say
hope for the best, prepare for the worst

JagerPlease · 14/08/2018 15:55

I wouldn't worry too much if your plan is to go as a tourist - the EU and UK are incredibly unlikely to impose tourist visa requirements on each other, it will most likely just be an ETIAS (like a US ESTA). You can get an international driving permit from the post office. But yes, the channel ports could potentially be a nightmare. Most UK phone operators have said they don't intend to bring back roaming charges. Three, for example, have said they definitely won't.

Stuckforthefourthtime · 14/08/2018 16:02

Look into capital gains tax also - if you did it up and we leave the EU then have to sell up at some point you'll have to pay large tax on any proceeds of sale. Inheritance tax and that could eat up a lot. Doesn't mean you shouldn't do if it would make you really happy, but only if you can afford to lose the cash.

Ta1kinpeace · 14/08/2018 16:20

the EU and UK are incredibly unlikely to impose tourist visa requirements on each other
Indeed, but movements into the UK will be tightened up under "taking back control"
so its deeply unlikely that it would not cut both ways.

I find the astonishing arrogance of Brits assuming that their free access to the Med will not be restricted utterly jaw dropping.

If the UK limits access, the EU will too. Its pretty obvious.
But then I was not born in the EU so what would I know about visa rules on travel Hmm