Another issue the Government appears to have forgotten...

[Sarahlou63]

www.theguardian.com/politics/2018/aug/06/police-leaders-warn-home-secretary-public-safety-threat-from-no-deal-brexit

I am quite sure that the USA will make a deal with the Germans or French if it suits their purposes. It might not be quite so convenient because the language isn't the same, but that's no real problem, because the people operating at that level will speak English.

double you said

So this really is a situation where there is no way the EU would cut off it's nose to spit it's face on this one

Ie. The EU will give in to our demands because we have something they want and they can’t do anything but agree with that.

In other words ‘they need us more than we need them’

How can you even be trying to twist this to anything else?

Bear - in this instance they need us. Not necessarily more than we need them but they do need us.

What is to stop them developing their own intelligence services ASAP? Would they want to rely on an increasingly unreliable third country?

So I was correct in my interpretation of what you were saying double

Sadly for you and your Leaver cronies, the EU isn’t going to be held to ransom by that.

I'm not sure what you are basing your confidence on? the terrorist threat is either home grown or comes from the east ie through Europe, no terrorist attack in Europe has come from the uk.

We ve had massive cuts in community policing, we ve 3 yes 3 border force boats for the entire UK coast line, the boots on the ground for intel gathering have been removed by the Tories.

The French and Germans in particular, have spent a fortune on beefing up their intelligence services in the last 30 years or so.

Of course we are stronger together but as i 'll repeat, May has made this impossible by her red lines.

You seem genuinely concerned about IS co-operation, so what do you think about May's red line on ECJ ?

What I am trying to say is that we have a great expertise in, for example cyber communications. It is said that the 'five eyes' group has the capability to intercept any cyber communication in the world, although that is a bit far fetched. GCHQ and the US agencies have been working on this for years and are invaluable to all our allies.

Sure, i don't disagree but its TM who is preventing Intel co-op moving fwd.

We'll still be in the 5 eyes grouping, post brexit, which doesn't include any other EU countries, so were we ever sharing this info with them in the first place?

The bottom line is that all these issues were not considered before the decision to have a referendum was made.

Jas of course we share info from the five eyes group with allies that's the point. We will always be in that group that's not in question we are a founding member.
We are our European allies link to this group, that's the point and I very much doubt they would want to cut that off.

Why would it be cut off? if the UK chooses to do so, then that is our decision not because of UK law but because we want to punish the EU.

If we go down this path, what would ie france say if there was another terrorist attack killing dozens, we knew but said nothing?

We can stay in Europol, continue as we are if we accept the ECJ, our decision not to do so..

Is anyone seriously suggesting that if the UK intelligence agencies know of a terrorist attack or the location of a pedophile or some such they won't tell their European counterparts because of Brexit?

Words fail me if that is the case...

FWIW I agree with Double, that on this issue the UK has something that the EU will genuinely want to continue to be able to access

There are currently, however, limitations on the information sharing between the EU and the UK so it's not as if we are facing going from a perfect situation to nothing at all

Is anyone seriously suggesting that if the UK intelligence agencies know of a terrorist attack or the location of a pedophile or some such they won't tell their European counterparts because of Brexit?

In certain situations that is the case right now (and the same with the EU, or rather, the constituent countries in the EU telling the UK about potential threats)