Brexiteers in South Wales

[neverseenstarwars]

I'm extremely worried about what is coming in South Wales (I only mention South because I live here), given that Westminster have already stated they won't match the funding we currently receive from being members of the EU. Despite living in one of the richest countries in the world, South Wales is amongst the poorest in Europe.

Do you have faith that Westminster will look after our part of the UK? Can you explain to me why you think Brexit is a good idea for Wales and how we will benefit? I can only see things getting worse for many parts of Wales.

I'm really struggling to get my head around this viewpoint and apologies if it's been covered in other threads. When you speak to people in RL they can't actually discuss it with you other than spouting the headlines or BF type posts. I'm not here to goad or wind people up I just really want to know from people can actually give me reasons.

I appreciate the Irish situation is far more complicated and deserving of discussion, but I've yet to see many people discussing Wales on here.

Not from Wales but from Cornwall. We are set to lose our funding too and it's not being replaced by Westminster so I feel your pain.

SusanWalker I wonder who the out voters will blame when things get worse? At the moment all our troubles are caused by the EU (not my opinion) so when Westminster hold all the cards and things will likely get worse, who can they blame then?

Hi, I don't live in Wales but grew up there and visit my parents often.
I continue to be flabbergasted by the strength of the leave vote in Wales. It has had so much investment as a direct result of being an EU member hasn't it.
Brexit is terrible for everyone (IMO) but for places like wales and Cornwall is a complete disaster.

I would genuinely be very interested to hear in the viewpoint of any Brexit supporters in wales.

I want to hear from the people who can discuss intelligently rather than just those who say the NHS should be for British people or that they don't want to be ruled by an unelected and undemocratic EU (without actually being able to go into details).

On an upside, I've just seen that BF has been banned by Facebook. At least now I won't have to see their posts being shared.

OP, you won’t get a sensible answer; essentially leave voters fall into 2 camps:-

• Those too short sighted to see the negative repercussions

• Those too rich to care.

Wasn't it interesting how the referendum went in Wales? I believe at one stage Westminster weren't handing over the funds they were supposed to give to Wales and Brussels had a quiet word. A long time ago. I'll dig for it when I have more time.

If there is an increase of new RoRo transport bypassing the UK, Wales will be the loser.

In conversation about Brexit recently, I said I thought funding to Wales might not be as favourably distributed by Westminster. The person I was speaking to said 'tough, they voted for it. They will get what they wanted'.

I'm not a Brexiteer and I don't live in South Wales any more. So not really qualified to answer. However, I seem to remember that when Tata were looking to close possibly both Redcar and Port Talbot steelworks, the government used EU rules as the reason why they couldn't subsidise the industry to help keep them open. Port Talbot has survived but Redcar didn't.
And these areas then vote to leave.

Good point. Related is the fact that the UK earlier blocked EU tariffs that would have likely saved the facility. Onwards to the glorious global sunlit uplands I guess.

Grockle I don't think the government would have subsidised Tata anyway, EU or no EU rules. It was an easy get out clause for them.
God help us in future when remaining industry in South Wales is in dire need of help!

Cailleach1 the majority of South Wales will get what they voted for. The rest of us will have to suffer because of it though.

I follow Plaid Cymru on social media. They have been working hard trying to get the Welsh Government to demand the governments act to ensure the best outcomes for Wales. Many, many of the comments are along the lines of "get over it, Wales voted out" or "Brexit is the will of the nation" or "PC are out of touch with what the nation want." When the shit hits the fan at least PC can say they tried. Unfortunately, too many of the Welsh people still see PC as for the Welsh nationalists and Welsh speakers. I've seen talk of setting up a new Welsh political party, but I don't know if it's actually happening or not. Anyone else know?

Oh no I don't think for one minute they wanted to help, it definitely was an excuse to hide behind. That's one example though and there may be others and it all adds up.

Out of anywhere, I am absolutely mystified why Wales voted for Brexit. Who on earth did they think was funding major infrastructure projects in all those working class red ribbon seats?? Err not the the Tories, that's for sure.

Wales is the main reason I cannot forgive Corbyn for Brexit. He had a duty to those safe Labour seats outside of London, where those people had so much to lose from Brexit. How were these ordinary people supposed to know what it would mean for them? He's let those people down by not campaigning harder in these deprived areas what the consequences are.

I think one of the problems with Wales is that we don't really have our own media and news outlets. If I go into a newsagent or supermarket and look at the newspapers on display, the majority of them are The Sun, Mirror, Mail etc. We need our own news from a Welsh perspective. We don't even have control of the Welsh language TV channel. Westminster has control over the funding of that.

Our local Labour MP appears to abstain from voting in just about everything that affects Wales. And yet people keep voting them in. In the last GE I heard people say that they're not happy with Labour but they voted for them to keep the Tories out. I might be naïve, but I voted for someone who would represent the best interests of my local area.

@neverseenstarwars I so agree with all you've said.

We should all be concerned about this, as you point out in your OP there is real poverty in many areas across South Wales. In fact the poor standard of living is exactly what attracted such disproportionate EU spending.

neverseen , I suspect you're right in that most ordinary people will feel the impact whether they voted leave or remain. And I don't think people voted specifically to leave the EMA and other such agencies. Could be wrong. Maybe most leave voters had issues with the authorisation of medicines. Even the notification of suspected quality defects and product recalls. Or how Orphan medicinal products are dealt with. Maybe they were complaining about this daily, over their cornflakes. The person I spoke with had no sympathy whatsoever. Especially since the narrative is still going on.

I think Wood has gone some way in increasing Plaid's appeal.

I'm a Remainer, originally from South Wales, and had quite a long argument on here before the referendum with a Leaver, who was insistent that Merthyr Tydfil was overrun with immigrants - it had the highest immigration in Wales and the second highest in the UK apparently. The immigrants were overwhelming schools and doctors surgeries and putting pressure on housing. So all the EU funding, which was significant, meant nothing if the locals were swamped by immigrants.

I was able to link to the official stats which showed that the EU-born
population of the town was 0.5% and non-EU 0.8% (the latter being professionals mostly employed directly by the local hospital). Oh, and the local population had actually declined in recent years.

But no, I was wrong, my stats made the Leaver laugh and laugh. They knew the truth.

I actually had to get a taxi at Merthyr station last year. When the driver heard I'd come from London the first thing he said was "Any white people left there any more?". [hmmm]

I find it ironic that immigration was such a vote swinger in South Wales given that the whole of the valleys has been built on immigration of workers from all over to the coal fields and other industries (while we still had any).

I listened to James O'Brien on LBC talking about the Russia situation. He said that when certain groups of people are presented with complicated information which they are unable to understand (I count myself in that group, but I did actually do a lot of reading and research leading up to the referendum and I learnt enough to know that it was far too complicated for me), all you need is a simple statement such as £350 million for the NHS and you've got a lot of people hooked.

They completely got the art of the sound bite right - "I think the British people have had quite enough of experts" from Gove. Yes, you twat, shame we couldn't count you in that group.

I too genuinely didn't know which way to vote, read a lot, but ultimately it was the Gov of the Bank of England Mark Carney that convinced me. I thought well, he's a Canadian with nothing to lose personally and no political affiliations, and he's the head economist in the UK. If he thinks it's going to be a "bad thing", that was good enough for me.

But then, I personally haven't been brought to my knees by govt austerity, so I was coming at it from a different viewpoint.

Londonista I'm in the same situation. Austerity hasn't affected me or those closest to me so far. Luckily, apart from the normal afflictions of ageing we aren't in need of medical care which we would likely have to wait months for. None of us claim benefits apart from child benefit. I'm self employed and even the last recession didn't really affect me, although over the last few years business has improved - but Brexit I'm worried about!

The other issue that's going to disproportionately affect Wales is the Irish border. The Northern / Southern Ireland border is getting all the attention but right now 70% of Irish cargo to the UK enters through Wales.

There was a WAG report in August 2017 about the potential impact of Brexit on Welsh ports - it's a potential economic disaster of its own.

The Ireland /Wales route is also connected to the Irish/NI border. A lot of trade from NI to GB goes through Dublin and across to Wales, also.

Jesus good point BreakWind.
Honestly, those constituents pretty much have no one fighting their corner do they. What an absolute dogs dinner the whole thing is.

The only pro-Brexit comment that I've heard that made sense to me was that "On June 23rd June, people didn't vote for nothing to change". That I do agree with. The EU needs to change, we need to change.I don't know the answer. We obviously cannot have a hard brexit and continue to function with any sense of normality.

Is it beyond us to reform policy or funding decisions by British political means? If you don't like the Tories then vote them out and campaign for what you need. I reject the idea that the EU way is the only or best way of determining fair spending in Wales and around the UK. A chunk of British taxpayers' money is sent to the EU. Relatively little comes back to the UK and even that has conditions attached. We are an established democratic nation with many intelligent and innovative people. Everyone wants to see the UK flourish after Brexit in all areas, except for those wanting it all to go pear shaped so they can say "I told you so". IMO Theresa May is not perfect but also is not one of the privileged old Etonians who couldn't care less about ordinary people. She has changed her mind after listening to people and reassessing things, and I see that as a strength. I like the fact our country is going to be completely responsible for its own budget and laws again.

I think "had enough of experts" was shorthand for having had enough of the pro-remain letters to the press signed by experts in various fields. It was meant to look as if groups of eminent people in various fields had independently collaborated to write to the press with their concerns. Actually it was all coordinated by No.10 who wrote the letters, found out who the remainers were in each field, and approached them and invited them to sign. The letters didn't all appear at once of course, as that would presumably have been too obvious. No Brexiteer experts were invited of course. While this campaign was being developed, Cameron was still supposedly "negotiating" with the EU with an "open mind" on Brexit! In real life, experts do not all have one homogeneous opinion, but varied ideas and conclusions which they debate and challenge. That's why people were fed up with the government propaganda signed by hand-picked experts. It wasn't all it seemed.

Itinerary 1% of GDP went to the EU from the UK. Just how is having that 1% back under UK Govt control to spend as they see fit going to make the blindest bit of difference to those in need/just about managing. Nothing TM has achieved to date has resulted in that demographic reporting improved circumstances.

Come on Itinerary. Give us some evidence for your conspiracy theory.