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Brexit

Westminstenders: From Russia with Love

996 replies

RedToothBrush · 13/03/2018 21:11

Things just got scary.

The colony of US puppet state or a vassel state of the EU?

Why not just let market forces take their course and let Russia buy the UK?

How did we get to stories of spies and mafia who buy politicians?

Just who are our enemies and allies?

Won't someone think of the effect on house prices in Salisbury?

Try not to don your foil hat, brace yourself and resist shouting 'money laundering too loud'.

More turbulence ahead.

Brexit still seems like such a cracking idea doesn't it?

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RedToothBrush · 14/03/2018 15:52

Exactly Pain.

If you don't like the party line, you must leave the party or you will be bullied out or silenced in some other way. There is no room for debate.

Its totally illiberal and anti-democratic. And looks a lot like how Putin manages to keep control.

Odd that.

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RedToothBrush · 14/03/2018 15:56

Remember our old 'friends' the Freedom Association:

Freedom Association @tfa4freedom
The Freedom Association made a decision over three years ago to no longer give interviews to RT & Press TV. We were right to make that decision. Others should follow suit.

I am agreeing with them on this...

(arrrghhhhhh!!!!)

Westminstenders: From Russia with Love
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OnTheDarkSideOfTheSpoon · 14/03/2018 15:59

This is all a bit crazy-making. Siding with May over labour made me feel funny yesterday and isn't improving today.

Laura Kuenssberg
‏*@bbclaurak*
Motion being scrambled by Labour MPs to back PMs view that Russia definitely culpable - taking v different line to Corbyn

Westminstenders: From Russia with Love
Motheroffourdragons · 14/03/2018 16:01

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OliviaD68 · 14/03/2018 16:07

@Motheroffourdragons

Yeah. So what? Pls tell me it matters.

DGRossetti · 14/03/2018 16:09

This is all a bit crazy-making. Siding with May over labour made me feel funny yesterday and isn't improving today.

even a stopped clock is right twice a day ... even Theresa May can have a point sometimes.

This is why I'm so fed up with the needless adversarialism in UK politics. Tories have some good ideas, so do Labour. Even the Greens aren't immune to flashes of sensible. Rather than just shouting at each other, maybe the best thing for the country would be to take all the good ideas ??????

I'd start by forcing MPs to sit randomly - chosen by lottery. In fact, I might start my latest book "101 simple ways to change the world" with that. Heck, I'd even buy my own raffle tickets so it costs the taxpayer nothing.

DGRossetti · 14/03/2018 16:10

Which bringing up Brexit again

www.theregister.co.uk/2018/03/14/calls_to_protect_roam_like_at_home_post_brexit/

Consumer charity Which? has called on the UK government to ensure consumers will continue to "roam like at home" while abroad in the European Union after Britain's withdrawal from the bloc.

(contd)

Motheroffourdragons · 14/03/2018 16:11

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Street2 · 14/03/2018 16:15

Force is the only thing he'll respond to.
That sounds completely irresponsible. Economic sanctions by all means but no aggression. In today's world it has got to be diplomacy above all. Which targets would you suggest should be hit by cyber attacks Olivia? Their healthcare? Schools? You would be feeding straight into Putin's propaganda against the West and give him a perfect excuse to retaliate on a grander scale. Confused This is sort of obvious, non?

OnTheDarkSideOfTheSpoon · 14/03/2018 16:16

I'm not above putting country above party. I've written to several Conservative MPs to thank them for supporting amendment 7 etc. I think it's that it is agreeing with May that I found unsettling, in the same way that I would find agreeing with Trump unsettling.

I know European coalitions can find it difficult to pass legislation and some are really very fractured but I would love a cross party coalition to avert the course we're heading down. And conservatives would be welcome in my fantasy coalition too.

OliviaD68 · 14/03/2018 16:24

@Street2

Power plants. Refineries. Industry. Military. Ports.

No aggression? Why not? These fuckers have attacked us.

I see that if we don't hit hard enough they will be back.

DGRossetti · 14/03/2018 16:25

I know European coalitions can find it difficult to pass legislation

You say that like it's a bad thing.

OliviaD68 · 14/03/2018 16:25

@Motheroffourdragons

Should is right.

Whether it does is different

DGRossetti · 14/03/2018 16:26

No aggression? Why not? These fuckers have attacked us.

Shock

Erm ....

Motheroffourdragons · 14/03/2018 16:30

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This has been withdrawn by MNHQ on behalf of the poster.

mrsreynolds · 14/03/2018 16:32

Olivia

Are you on fucking glue??

RedToothBrush · 14/03/2018 16:32

Corbyn says he is a progressive liberal moderniser who wants to remove the corrupt white male establishment who tell others their place and doesn't give the working class a voice, it just uses them.

Corbyn is in fact, an illiberal elite member of the union movement which is overwhelmingly white and male. The leadership don't really give a fuck about issues for low ranking members. They are a means to an end, with the middle ranks doing the donkey work, so they can milk the profits. He is using the working class as a way to lever himself into power. He and his other elites rather look down on them for being 'uneducated'. He silences debate or is complicit in the silencing of debate. He is illiberal, using bullying tactics to consolidate his position through outright intimidation or ostracism. He's not liberal. He's not progressive. Sexism is still rife, but simply dressed differently.

Same tactics and same type of people. Just different faces.

Not really seeing how this improves anything for the country.

It wouldn't be a revolution. Just a replacement of the system for the same rotten stinking structure.

Brexit actually provides the vehicle to do it, so he needs Brexit. But for the blame to be pinned on the Tories.

All his statement today exposes is his opposition to the 'British values' of liberal democracy and his like of controlling people. Which he shares with Trump and Putin.

Not with women. Not with BAME. Not with EU immigrants.

Even his support for the IRA is built upon that, not upon a desire for a liberal peace plan.

A lot has been said about #peaktrans on MN. I wonder how long before #peakcorbyn starts to be a thing.

The worst thing is that we need socialist thinking in this country. The way Corbyn uses the working class whilst also holding in contempt will ensure it doesn't actually come about because it will be about building this new establishment if he gets into power.

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OliviaD68 · 14/03/2018 16:34

@Motheroffourdragons

Military force. Yes. Agree.

Why not cyber attacks?

It should absolutely be within our capabilities to do that.

Nothing short of some show of force will do it. Nothing. He will continue.

DGRossetti · 14/03/2018 16:35

mrsreynolds

That was my first thought Grin.

I typed my 3rd ....

Sostenueto · 14/03/2018 16:35

We cannot use force I agree. I'm just disappointed the England football team are still going....

OliviaD68 · 14/03/2018 16:37

@mrsreynolds

Glue? Sorry? Who's on glue?

Do we think being nice and treading softly will work with this thug?

frankiestein401 · 14/03/2018 16:38

No. I personally think we should be shutting down key targets in Russia through cyber warfare

Russian cyber warfare capability could well exceed our own and i would expect that its more likely that Russia has been able to mandate protection of services than we would have been able to mandate protection of privatised services.

I remember a Russian jet being examined after a high profile defection in the cold war and there being initial mirth at some valve powered electronics, before it was realised that these would survive the EMP associated with a nuclear blast - don't underestimate their capability.

Russia has spent far more than us on cyber - we don't want to go there.

RedToothBrush · 14/03/2018 16:38

Putin doesn't fear violence.

Putin fears liberal views and the spread of critical thought.

Why?

Because he needs to suppress them to stay in power in Russia. The West's belief and observance of them can not be kept out of Russia easily.

Instead he launched an offensive to undermine this. To destroy confidence and belief in liberal democracy within the West. In doing so he strengthens his hand domestically and it benefits him in foreign affairs by making his hand stronger.

Now ponder Corbyn in the context of this.

scratches chin

We need a Jefferson not a Churchill.

Its a battle of minds not weaponry.

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DGRossetti · 14/03/2018 16:38

It's almost like the last 18 years have happened ... to someone else Hmm

Why not cyber attacks?

Because - as with real attacks - it will be the weak, the vulnerable, the poor and the young that will suffer.

If Putins aim was to sow dissent amongst remainers, it seems ... job done.

Motheroffourdragons · 14/03/2018 16:39

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