Westminstenders: From Russia with Love

[RedToothBrush]

Things just got scary.

The colony of US puppet state or a vassel state of the EU?

Why not just let market forces take their course and let Russia buy the UK?

How did we get to stories of spies and mafia who buy politicians?

Just who are our enemies and allies?

Won't someone think of the effect on house prices in Salisbury?

Try not to don your foil hat, brace yourself and resist shouting 'money laundering too loud'.

More turbulence ahead.

Brexit still seems like such a cracking idea doesn't it?

God, it's like Downfall in here ...

Otherwise you've just done other peoples prepping for them.

On my bad days, my thoughts have turned to how our estate can be defended.

I think that people's misconceptions over what type of attack / crisis we might have, don't help much.

Plausible deniability, and deliberate use of propaganda to add to confusion and fuel conspiracy theories is what you are going to get.

On a physical level think about the 'North Korean cyber attack on the NHS' story. That type of thing is much more likely.

Open use of nerve agent is to make a point, but its unlikely to be a tactic used widely.

Its much more likely to be about getting in your head rather than physically harming you. That makes it scarier in a way, because you are talking about weaponising people's thoughts internally.

There are ways in which our multiculturalism can be used against us. There are ways that our class identity can be used against us. The rise of identity politics at this moment in time, is divide and rule, but our political parties are embracing it! They are fucking fools for it.

Link to the prepping thread ?

www.mumsnet.com/Talk/am_i_being_unreasonable/3193163-to-ask-how-you-re-preparing-for-Brexit
Preppers thread.

My prepping involves taking plenty of wine to my DD every time we go to England from our home in France.
We have a large vegetable garden and though we won’t have shortages it does help to counter our 20% loss of income since Brexit.

Tax rises of £40bn 'needed by mid-2020s' to cut deficit
www.bbc.com/news/business-43397798

Laura Kuenssberg
‏*@bbclaurak*
Not so surprising some in govt are talking about tax rises - that light at the end of the tunnel is pretty faint

www.mumsnet.com/Talk/am_i_being_unreasonable/3193417-To-wonder-why-MNers-are-so-obsessed-with-Brexit-now?watched=1&msgid=76341406#76341406

Why are MNers so obsessed with Brexit now?

EU council president calls out Donald Trump's 'transatlantic bickering' in face of Russia tension

In thinly veiled tweet Donald Tusk says need for 'transatlantic unity' should be 'obvious' for Europe's 'real friends'

www.independent.co.uk/news/uk/politics/donald-tusk-donald-trump-transatlantic-bickering-eu-president-russia-putin-a8255236.html

DGRosetti You've posted a couple of times now that you don't think that there will be anything more destabilising than voting for brexit and then not brexiting.
Why on earth do you think stopping the madness and just carrying on with our lives is going to be more destabilising than us crashing out, or entering a period of terminal decline?
You can't honestly believe all that bullshit about the ukippers rising up? We've seen their attempts at marches - they're lacklustre at best.

He's also tweeted this in the last half hour

Donald Tusk
‏*@eucopresident*
I express my full solidarity with PM @theresa_may in the face of the brutal attack inspired, most likely, by Moscow. I’m ready to put the issue on next week’s #EUCO agenda.

Alistair Bunkall
‏*@AliBunkallSKY*
Breaking: The PM will announce the expulsion of Russian diplomats from the UK. Not as many as in 1971 but “significant” I’m told.
Not sure if the Russian Ambassador will be expelled but I’m told the UK wants to retain the ability to have dialogue

DGRosetti You've posted a couple of times now that you don't think that there will be anything more destabilising than voting for brexit and then not brexiting. Why on earth do you think stopping the madness and just carrying on with our lives is going to be more destabilising than us crashing out, or entering a period of terminal decline? You can't honestly believe all that bullshit about the ukippers rising up? We've seen their attempts at marches - they're lacklustre at best.

UKIP are finished as far as UK mainstream politics are concerned. The only people who don't know are UKIP and the BBC.

(That's not to say there aren't other scumbag collectives working on their tattoos though.)

My thoughts about no Brexit now being worse than Brexit are based around thinking that if the UK was put in a position where Brexit either had to be delayed, or even cancelled, the Fear Uncertainty and Doubt that would arise could be more paralysing to the country than a no-deal Brexit. Outside of this thread, there are few who would understand what was going on. Which is a wonderful way to ensure the UK stays well out of places it shouldn't be sticking it's nose in.

Also, imagine the effect a backtracked Brexit would have within the EU ?

Is just one possible way events may unfold.

For someone of a certain age - like me - there's a strong sense of deja-vu here. Back in 1981, convinced we would be living in a nuclear wasteland, I boned up on radiation poisoning, fallout drift patters, effects of various nuclear weapons (fission, fusion, dirty, and the then novel "neutron bomb"). I bought a pen dosimeter from an army surplus outfit that advertised in the "Exchange and Mart". And with some friends worked out that cagules and hiking trousers were probably the best materials to be able to wash fallout from.

We certainly were not alone - it was quite a thing (especially if you were into science fiction).

Yep...stocking up on meds too like hrt.

I’m ready to put the issue on next week’s #EUCO agenda.

Less time for Brexit then.

Tick tock.

All toys r us stores to close in 6 weeks

All toys r us stores to close in 6 weeks

Presumably the big landlords - DTZ, GA - will have to ratchet up rents for remaining units ?

Olivia The Lords is being flooded with more Tory/Brexit peers next week, according to Jeffrey Archer who was told at Lord Fowler’s 80th birthday party! Gear up for big political row. Tories already have far more peers than their position in the Commons justifies!

The bl**dy irony. Mays speech about 'the unelected' Lords. And then she goes about creating more and rigging the place.

“And unelected members of the House of Lords have vowed to fight the Government every step of the way.

“The inevitable political divisions this would cause in Westminster and elsewhere would risk our ability to make a success of Brexit.

Well, well, well.

My thoughts about no Brexit now being worse than Brexit are based around thinking that if the UK was put in a position where Brexit either had to be delayed, or even cancelled, the Fear Uncertainty and Doubt that would arise could be more paralysing to the country than a no-deal Brexit. Outside of this thread, there are few who would understand what was going on

I can see how a delayed brexit would be bad for business in terms of uncertainty - but not how it would be worse than actual brexit - which could destroy them. As for individuals - most people are bored of brexit. Those that don;t care won't know, which just leaves the two polarised sides. Leavers might be fuming - but they don't do anything.
An out and out cancelled brexit would be good all round. Again - only the most rabid leavers would notice and be angry about it. Remainers would be deliriously happy. But most people wouldn't care.

Also, imagine the effect a backtracked Brexit would have within the EU ?
They've said repeatedly they'd welcome us back with open arms. Again - ordinary citizens wouldn't care (or notice) and the EP wouldn't have to change anything. Might be a pain if we delayed long enough that we were still in at the next election cycle and then decided to stay after all and didn't have any MEPS - but hardly the end of the world!

I really don't see how backtracking could be in any way worse than a crash out. And wouldn't be better in the long run than a transition deal and a soft brexit.

Interesting thread (the 'Why are people becoming more interested in Brexit now') - now all we need is somewhere that energy can be directed. Which is, sadly, still noticeable by its absence.

I think DGRossetti highlights an aspect of the thinking that is halting a major anti-Brexit opposition. I'm quite sure that quite a few politicians, in the UK and in the EU, think that reversing Brexit would, at this point, be chaotic - both for the EU and for the UK.

I'm not with them. I still think, on balance, the chaos of a reversal could be managed and would be preferable.

I think the push for Brexit - and the forces ranged against a central opposition to Brexit and for Remain - are hegemonic, in Gramsci's sense of being a coalition of different interests. There are those who think it would be chaotic to reverse Brexit, there are those who have extreme capitalist visions for a post-EU UK, there are those who are somewhat inert and self-interested, there are those who genuinely think that this will be a gateway to a new progressive politics ...

It's a problem. Because it's stopping what we seem to be seeing in the US. I realise that I am repeating what Pain has said on the Trump threads but there really does seem to be a fight-back in the US. And part of that fight-back has been the incentivising and reinvigoration of political will and belief. Lots of people voting who didn't vote in the Presidential election. Somehow, the whole Trump nightmare has exploded the cynicism of "Voting doesn't change anything, they're all the same." A political discourse has emerged that says: "Look. Trump has proved they are not all the same. Trump is different. Voting matters. Politics affects everyone - you can't avoid it - get involved."

That is an amazing positive. But it isn't one I'm seeing here. The polls suggest that the up-turn towards 'Remain' is largely amongst those who didn't vote. But it's nothing like the up-turn in the US. We really do need more. And I think it highlights why cynicism and a turn away from political involvement is so damaging.

thecat, it comes down to a lack of credible alternative.

In the US the democrats are hugely flawed, but they retain some credibility. I see the converse true in the UK.

And above all, we have no credible plan to Brexit or not Brexit.

I think there has been missed a trick here tbh. Verhofstadt said from the word go 'associate EU member'. No one has ever pursued it.

There is nothing cohesive coming from anywhere. Just fumbling.

In Trump there is something to rally against. Here, not really. Brexit is still an abstract concept which has no physical form. It is an imagined hope or idea - which is individual to whoever is thinking of it. In Trump you have an arsehole who says unpleasant things that you can see.

Jack Blanchard @JackBlanchard
Theresa May names Vladimir Putin as directly responsible for the first time. "It is tragic Vladimir Putin has chosen to act in this way."

steve hawkes @steve_hawkes
Jeremy Corbyn: Our response must be "based on clear evidence" - says still a possibility that Russia might have lost the nerve agent

Beth Rigby @BethRigby
This has not played well in the chamber

He's now switched from Russia to linking it to austerity cuts. The HoC is going nuts.

Election Data @election_data
Oh. My. God. What is this?

A reaction from a pro-Labour account.

Its one of the better ones, re: Corbyn.

Will Heaven @WillHeaven (The Spectator)
Wow. The Russian Embassy will be delighted with Corbyn's response to Theresa May's statement.

Obviously going to be anti-Corbyn, but I'm finding myself nodding...