Westminstenders: Break Up or Make Up?

[RedToothBrush]

The next week or so appears to be yet another crunch point (not that any of these crunch points have actually resolved anything so far).

The EU is set to outline the plan for Ireland. Which everyone thought had already been outlined and agreed already. And it had been admitted was legally binding.

Except apparently we don't want to do that, and we are now crying about how the EU want to break up Britain (nothing to do with England wanting to leave the EU and Scotland and NI wanting to stay in it of course).

Jeremy Corbyn has now apparently decided that the customs union is a good idea. David Davis and Liam Fox have responded by saying that this would stop us making our own trade deals. Yes this has obviously stopped Turkey, and why aren't we doing as much trade with China etc as Germany anyway? A vote in the HoC looms before Easter. Will Tory rebels support.

Will Jeremy Corbyn bow to pressure over the single market too? The customs union alone does not stop the border issue in Ireland. Nor does it stop ridiculous queues at Dover. I'm not sure Corbyn is one for listening though. He's got a whiff of power and democracy and reality is just a hindrance to utopia.

As for the Great Repeal Bill. Word has it, its not going too clever in the HoL. The conservatives had something of a show of strength with an unusual number turning up for the debate. But few on the backbenches were willing to speak in favour of...

It all feels like we are making no progress at all. We are still bleating on about cherry picked deals as if this is a negotiation. Its not.

Oh, Major has made the BBC news now.

I like his line about having to not only speak truth to power but also truth to the people. I think that's very powerful, and - if things were equal - would be very effective. People are being lied to, and it is a perversion of the idea of democracy to do this lying in the name of 'the will of the people'.

Now, John Major is the sort of Tory I could actually vote for. He never came across as dogmatic or bombastic, but pragmatic and insightful.

Also, unlike May, he led the Tories to an election defeat. Which I would hope any interviewer points out to an audience (as I suspect JM would be too modest himself).

Hopefully a certain T.Bliar is snowed in somewhere with no internet. If he joins in at this point ....

And I liked his pitting of 'the wellbeing of the people' against 'the will of the people'.

It probably won;t have any effect but it is good to hear a senior political figure pointing out that functioning liberal democratic governments do not knowingly act to diminish the wellbeing of the people out of craven short term interest. They are elected to lead, in the best interests of those who elected them.

Major both won and then lost an election. But at least that's a result - not like May who called an election unnecessarily and neither won nor lost. Perhaps that should have been expected for a ditherer/fence sitter.

Major both won and then lost an election

Having lived through it, I'd suggest that he won one, and Blair won the next ? The Tories could have promised every man woman child of any gender a golden unicorn that shat diamonds, and still lost. 1997 was just a pivot in politics (coming 18 years after 1979 - which was the last pivot ?????).

Again, having lived through it, 1983 and 1987 were never going to be Labour victories. Nothing to do with nuclear disarmament, clause IV, or Militant, and everything to do with the generational divide.

I will admit 1992 was the shock year. In hindsight it's the UKs 1972 Nixon moment. Everyone - even Tories - were expecting at best a hung parliament. The only thing I can think of, is there is a weird sentimentality in the British voter which gives people a chance - bearing in mind Major inherited the Premiership.

I also firmly believe it was trying to buck this that did for Brown and May. They should have given the public a quick chance to give them a chance and carry on. By dithering, they lost that underdog advantage.

That said, Major pretty much pushed it to the full term - so perhaps Sky won't be calling on me anytime soon .

Just for lolz, DW and I are re-watching "The Rock and Roll Years" - currently at 1968. It's eerily spooky how most of the news stories are as current today as then. We really haven't advanced much in 50 years . Except for digital watches.

According to Guardian live feed...

"As my colleague Alan Travis reports, the government has sneaked out (“sneaked out”, because it coincides with a particularly busy Brexit news day) an announcement showing that the government has backed down on the issue of the rights of EU nationals coming to the UK during the transition."

I remember being absolutely gutted when Major won in 1992. I am surprising myself by thinking so kindly of him now. It's a pity that the '97 election couldn't have done for Redwood and the other bastards in the way it finished Portillo's political career. However, I will give Portillo his due - he was gracious in defeat, and makes a good commentator on railway journeys.

Thank you, Red, for continued services to sanity.

I'll borrow and raise that.

Absolutely bonkers is the new normal. Craig McKinley at the Brexit select committee talking about the 'EU ranting'. Think they must have been giving the Ultras a reality dose of the possible.

I think you are right DGR about the mood for change. People were fed up in 1979 and wanted something else, same again in 1997. Both times this happened, a figure they could rally round had appeared.

I don't think we are quite there now, although the wind is definitely changing direction. I don't think the Corbyn is the something new either, but it's possible that he will be able to lay the groundwork, in the way that the late John Smith was able to prepare the way for Blair - he made Labour look credible again.

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twitter.com/jamesrbuk/status/968807963577257984

There have been quite a few sneers at Ireland with more than a few politicians and pundits saying that the EU won't give a fig about that issue. BMW etc will turn the screws. Also that the fudge was a way of having dealt with it.

Ruth Davidson lied said it had all been dealt with. All done, dusted and fudged to pretend to placate Ireland. Also, quite a few of the tossers on DP and QT.

Yet, it is having to be dealt with. Reality bites now. The viciousness will get worse.

So many what-ifs here.

John Smith - if he had lived, we might have never had 9/11 ? We certainly would not have gone to war.

I was in a pub for the 1992 election. As the results came in - about 2am - it was clear not only were Labour not going to do it, but that the Tories were getting a majority. No one - of any political persuasion - could believe it. The whole place was very quiet.

For obvious reasons, I like the idea of Michael Portillo, as a cursed half-immigrant myself. He's also a jolly engaging presenter. (So is Boris, by the way). But he was a "wet" anyway ?

I didn't think Portillo was 'wet'. I remember on election night, it appeared to be him and Deadwood Redwood on their mobiles to each other, as the catastrophe (for them) unfolded.

Don't know about John Smith preventing 9/11 - but if Al Gore had been allowed to take up the Presidency which I am quite sure he won, we wouldn't have gone to war. Again though, the Bushes, in hindsight, have improved with keeping, compared with what the Americans have now.

In the age of information at the touch of your fingertips, isn't it strange how lies and propaganda have had such an effect in the UK?

Statements and 'facts' which are proven to be lies are uttered again and again on trusted media like the BBC etc. And allowed to be freshly broadcast and stand without being corrected. It is a strange time.

You just know how far things have fallen when the Bushes look better.

Don't know about John Smith preventing 9/11

There was an odd late night series on the BBC years ago, along the lines of "what if ...". "What if John Smith had not died" was interesting, as all who knew him said that he would never have supported the US in a war.

Without the UKs backing, it's entirely possible that Iraq and Afghanistan may have taken a very different path.

But, if ifs and buts were fruit and nuts ....

This is how we explain Brexit to our American friends, "Imagine Texas actually had an independence referendum instead of just talking about how different it is and decided to leave the United States, the state laws would stay the same but everything else was unclear. As a Texan you would lose the right to work or travel into another state as an American. You would be told you weren't an American anymore just a Texan and to suggest you were was being unpatriotic"

Amen to that. Even Dubya is looking like some sort of moderate elder statesman compared to the current Cheeto-in-Chief.

We all rehabilitate our previous leaders that we don't put against a wall. I guess it's part of a narrative that makes the people look "wise" in hindsight. Also with time, priorities change. For all the bad, Nixon (and Ted Heath) did fight their own parties to make overtures to China. Which it's arguable have paid off in spades in the 21st century, in keeping China engaged with the world. Quite a feat, considering the millenia China spent trying to avoid the outside world.

This is how we explain Brexit to our American friends

Secession is probably a better example ?

It only benefits the far-right if Nazi Germany is perceived as being a deranged & anomalous outlier...rather than an ethno-nationalist model

They aim to rehabilitate fascism via ahistoricism and contemporary propaganda/memes. This is a carefully considered long term project.

Fascism and white supremacy are not symptoms. They are self-affirming/self-justifying ideologies that need to be challenged at every point.

I would add any supremacy. But we are definitely in strange times. Going backwards.

twitter.com/Limerick1914/status/828746608246476800

But Major isn't only looking good in hindsight. He is looking good now. Elder statesman of the moment.

And the Bushes in contrast to Trump. Of the moment as well.

This is from Dubya last November.

He also made comments last month expressing his disappointment at the current political climate, in remarks which many deemed to be an attack on Mr Trump.

Speaking to the George W Bush Institute, he said: “Bigotry seems emboldened. Our politics seems more vulnerable to conspiracy theories and outright fabrication.

“[The founders of the Munich conference] would be alarmed by an increasing turn away from universal values and toward old ties of blood and race and sectarianism.”

www.independent.co.uk/news/world/americas/us-politics/george-bush-donald-trump-doesnt-know-what-it-means-to-be-president-a8037136.html

btw, was Texas a random choice of state ?