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Brexit

Westministenders: A week in politics is a long time....

975 replies

RedToothBrush · 05/11/2017 12:28

Lost track of politics in the last week or so?

Someone asked how do I keep on top of this? I’ve struggled this week there is so much going on.

Brexit seems to be on a bit of a back burner and we have become utterly swamped in mud and sleaze and corruption allegations

So here is a summary of the last week:

  1. Government defeated over the impact reports due to an ancient parliamentary protocol. They must release papers to the public though this is likely to be heavily redacted.
  2. Currently we are holding talks about talks with the EU. Instead of speeding up talks. They are annoyed at us for this.
  3. Baroness Anelay, the minister responsible for getting the Repel Bill through the Lords, quit citing an injury caused by jumping out of a helicopter several years ago. She was the second person to quit this role. Lord Bridges quit saying it was impossible task.
  4. Michael Gove has joined the Brexit Cabinet, which now has a majority of Leavers.
  5. There is currently no one employed at the Brexit department for strategic planning.
  6. Brexit Bill likely to face even more opposition in the face of Williamson’s self promotion. More Remainers who have been loyal to May talking of joining the Rebel Forces.
  7. The has been a threat to rig the Lords to pass the Repel Bill according to Lord Adonis
  8. Clegg, Adonis and Clarke went to see Barnier. Farage got jealous.
  9. Talks for Stormont broke down. No direct rule but not home rule. Who is ruling is a mystery, but the same can be said in England at present. DUP are not getting their dosh.
  10. FTA may not be possible on lines UK want as it would be better than Canada and South Korea and that’s not legally allowed. The real problem for the UK is services.
  11. EHCR related issues – prisoner voting rights and letter to Romanian which brings into question whether the EHCR is deliberately being flouted.
  12. Clause in the data protection bill which allows it to be ignored ‘cos immigration’.
  13. The Electoral Commission are being sued for allowing over spending by Vote Leave
  14. Arron Banks is being investigated by the Electoral Commission over how he donated to political causes
  15. UKIP whistleblowers reported donations they thought were odd and not declared but only just has come to light
  16. Arron Banks is winding up a charity under investigation by the Charities Commission
  17. Arron Banks paid for Kate Hoey to go to Washington DC.
  18. Lord Ashcroft apparently exposed by the Bermuda hack, like Robert Mercer
  19. Steve Baker reported for taking money from the mysterious donor to the DUP
  20. Priti Patel breaks ministerial code with an undisclosed trip to Israel with lobbyist. May says she has done nothing wrong, despite it being clear breech of the rules.
  21. Michael Fallon quit over multiple incidents
  22. Damien Green embroiled in accusation over Kate Maltby. Also having a fight with former counter terrorism copper who he has history with over ‘extreme porn’ found on his computer during a raid. Copper previously said he had been set up in the paper but dropped the accusation. Green is denying everything
  23. Charlie Elphicke has had the whip removed and case has been referred to police. Says he has done nothing wrong and isn’t even aware of what he has been accused of.
  24. Steven Crabb under investigation for sexting. Has apologised.
  25. Michael Garnier under investigation for dildo buying. Has apologised
  26. Daniel Kawcyznski allegedly tried to set up dates with aides and wealthy friends
  27. Dan Poulter reported by fellow tory MP Andrew Bridgen for allegedly putting hands up skirts. Whips told in 2010.
  28. Chris Pincher alleged pound shop Weinstein who attempted to untuck the shirt of former Olympic rower and tory activist Alex Story.
  29. Gavin Barwell former whip and May’s special adviser. Broke special advisor code by tweeting politically controversial things. Is accused of being complicit in hiding the bodies and not taking action.
  30. Gavin Williamson gave himself a promotion and pissed everyone off. As former whip knows all the dirt but is vulnerable as a result of that, as he didn’t report or discipline offenders.
  31. ‘The Lift Lunger’ – as yet unnamed Tory MP said to have ‘attacked’ Labour MP in taxi. Date rape drugs possibly involved.
  32. Boris Johnson, Alok Sharma and Tobias Ellwood all named as having contact with the mysterious Maltese professor named in the Papadopoulos indictment.
  33. Farage makes anti-Semitic remarks on LBC. That’s Farage, a person of interest to the FBI.
  34. Three indictments in USA for Trump Russia. Which implicate a whole load of people by association.
  35. Some stuff is going on in Saudi Arabia which should have half an eye kept on it.
  36. Jared O’Mara, Clive Lewis, Ivan Lewis and Kelvin Hopkins on the Labour Shit List. Also a rape allegation against a Labour activist which was shut down by a senior Labour figure

This week the Repel Bill and the Budget. Plus no doubt, lots more scandal.

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Cailleach1 · 12/11/2017 11:00

Gove on Nazanin Zaghari-Ratcliffe. what is wrong with these guys? Are they psychopathic or something? her family must be terrified.

lonelyplanetmum · 12/11/2017 11:03

Sorry Ratcliffe and other typos. Haste, and reliance on off the peg spectacles.

Cailleach1 · 12/11/2017 11:03

to protect johnson he'll make it worse for someone in an iranian jail.

RedToothBrush · 12/11/2017 11:06

Gove sees his own political future tied to Johnson. I suspect he views it like this, and in defending Johnson he is actually defending himself.

When the young Tories called for a Cabinet clean out to remove dead wood who do nothing but screw up and to give the next generation their turn they laid it on the line.

If Johnson goes, then Gove also becomes politically the previous generation. He will get over looked in future in favour of younger MPs.

Everyone is saying that events are all about May's survival. Its not just May who is clinging on and fighting for her political survival. Its also various other individuals in the Cabinet.

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BigChocFrenzy · 12/11/2017 11:18

Brexit was mostly about disaster capitalists wanting to loot, as well as avoiding implementing the EU ATAD laws against tax dodging
We don't know how large the Russian influence was, but on a 52:48 decision even a little could have been decisive

Trump's election was a similar knife edge, with Clinton actually winning 2 million more votes.
The official investigations in the US have shown the Trump administration has crossed the line in what was previously thought permissible in his dealings with an unfriendly foreign power.

There may eventually be charges in the US, but probably not against Trump himself, so long as the Republicans control Congress.
Unlike in the US, the UK govt has a lot of power to prevent official investigations that would at least be embarrassing to it.
Especially into dark money going to the Tory party and politicians, whether from Legatum or Russia

Plenty of investigations of those on benefits, to see if they have taken an extra quid, but none on whether the UK electoral process has been undermined by dark money.

BigChocFrenzy · 12/11/2017 11:21

I reject the idea that finding Russian or disaster capitalist influence diverts attention from the politicians who allowed themselves to be used.

Politicians who take bribes are nearly always hammered far worse than the bribe-givers.

BigChocFrenzy · 12/11/2017 11:27

Putin and his supporters are kleptocratic fascists, racists and homophobes who want to loot, as well as spread their nastiness to other countries.
They glorify in stirring up hate, particularly against Muslims
Putin has made billions out of Russia, as have the Russian oligarchs around him.

Russian influence has been particularly noticeable in supporting the far right in Germany, especially in their former East German colony.
Armies of Twitter biots, fake news, even financial support
They have also been active in supporting the far right in Austria, the Netherlands, France
... and Hungary in particular.

I remember on another site a Hungarian posted that the Russian intelligence service officially supervises referenda there on very loaded questions like "do you support the patriotic Hungarian govt in refusing to obey the undemocratic EU in .... whatever"
He said every voting form has a number and the Russian intelligence service is actually responsible for counting the votes.
He thinks it very likely they can work out who doesn't toe the line. He was in despair for his country.

Hungary is one of the EE countries whom the UK and US pressured the EU so hard to admit.
However, these countries were so long under USSR control, they needed the equivalent of the de-nazification that Germany was forced by the Allies to go through.
Without this, Russian influence - and "agents of influence" remained far too strong.
Their membership gives Russia a foothold and weakens the EU.

Typical of how "cunning plans" by the US and UK keep ending in disaster

Countries who spend years under fascist dictators - Greece, Spain, Portugal - also have problems from this even decades later.

Dictatorships, whether fascist or communist, can wreck a country's social, political & economic fabric for decades after the dictators have been overthrown

The idea that a country's problems can be solved by giving dictatorial powers to the leaders goes against history

Eeeeeowwwfftz · 12/11/2017 11:51

Fuck sake Gove.

(I'm a bit too close to the Zaghari-Ratcliffe story so have not been commenting till now).

She was on holiday.

Eeeeeowwwfftz · 12/11/2017 11:52

With a daughter, who is a British citizen, who will probably never see her father at this rate. Angry

Cailleach1 · 12/11/2017 11:58

About how NI farmers, even unionist ones, may feel the impact of Brexit. Gove et al's platitudes won't cut it.

and yes, they say he is a relative of Davy Crockett.

Crockett is still incredulous that any farmer in Northern Ireland could have voted to leave the EU.
“I told them it was like a turkey voting for Christmas, and I think they’re starting to realise that now. I think if there were elections tomorrow they would vote to stay in.”

www.irishtimes.com/news/ireland/irish-news/david-crockett-and-the-border-farm-split-by-the-wild-frontier-1.3274084#.Wfg6xwsOt14.twitter

Somerville · 12/11/2017 12:24

For anyone interested in why journalists are interviewing the unionist border farmers, rather than the much more prevalent republican farmers...
An elderly relative who farms on the border (well, the younger generations do the farming now, but she still lives there) told me journalists keep sniffing around, "but none of the weans will talk to them."
I asked if she'd given an interview:
"I tried! I told your man that if they put a camera along I'll be the first one out there with my shotgun. And then he never came back for the rest of my interview!"

HashiAsLarry · 12/11/2017 12:26

What I can't wrap my head around, because I have little experience of things like this probably, is why there isn't more of a fuss around the baby. Regardless of what they've accuses Nazanin of, surely there's an issue withholding a related child's British passport?

Somerville · 12/11/2017 12:27

Weans = children, or in this case the generations younger than herself (so 60 and under!)
Your man = The man under discussion (some random journalist)

Somerville · 12/11/2017 12:33

Just saw that "I don't know what she was doing in Iran" on ITV news from that smarmy weasel of a gobshite. Angry

(Who was it whose husband was wondering the advantages of the family getting Irish passports. That.)

woman11017 · 12/11/2017 12:37

"I tried! I told your man that if they put a camera along I'll be the first one out there with my shotgun. And then he never came back for the rest of my interview!"

Brilliant. Armed women, their second worst nightmare. Grin

Just realised I'm bi lingual. 'weans' works in Glasgow too. Smile

BigChocFrenzy · 12/11/2017 12:46

(paywall) Adam Boulton: Theresa May at the abyss with danger ahead and trouble behind

https://www.thetimes.co.uk/edition/news/theresa-may-at-the-abyss-with-danger-ahead-and-trouble-behind-z6wkrbtkv

...Tory MPs still lingering in London could be found asking themselves:
was this the “worst week ever” for a government?
.....
On Monday Boris Johnson and Priti Patel were dangling by a thread, days after the defence secretary, Sir Michael Fallon, had fallen from office.

The foreign secretary’s carelessness had left a British citizen, Nazanin Zaghari-Ratcliffe, in danger of another five years in an Iranian prison,
after he gave MPs an inaccurate, and from Tehran’s view incriminating, account of why she was in Iran when seeing her parents last year.

As for Patel, an extraordinary two-page statement from the international development secretary demonstrated that she had been careless as well as economical with the truth in her previous accounts of “a family holiday” in Israel.

She admitted that she had attended a series of meetings with senior Israeli officials, including the prime minister, Binyamin Netanyahu,
without British officials being present or informed fully about her freelance diplomacy.

The ambitious Patel may have thought her prospects could be helped by Lord Polak of Conservative Friends of Israel, her companion at some of her meetings.

Whether she also hoped to shift UK Middle East policy in an “alt-right” pro- Israeli direction remains an open question
— as does the claim in the Haaretz newspaper that she visited an Israeli outpost in what Britain regards as the illegally occupied Golan Heights.

Dark clouds also gathered over Damian Green, the most senior minister after May.
The first secretary of state is under Cabinet Office investigation for inappropriate behaviour and ...
stands accused by a former high-ranking police officer of having pornography on his office computers.

The release of the “Paradise Papers” seemed to tip the mood still more against the Tories.
Jeremy Corbyn has long campaigned against tax havens and the latest revelations tarnished icons including the Queen and Lewis Hamilton.

Those shaking their heads at Westminster speculated whether this guttering government’s plight is worse than Jim Callaghan’s in the late 1970s,
John Major’s in the 1990s
or Gordon Brown’s in the Noughties.
....
Neither the referendum outcome nor May’s attempt to unite the country behind her in the general election has succeeded in uniting the Conservative Party.
Instead it has been plunged into a disorderly nervous breakdown.

In supporting the government, many remainer Tory MPs are voting against what their consciences tell them is in the nation’s best interest.

Leavers, fearful perhaps that their prize may slip from them, are demanding an ever more fundamentalist interpretation of Brexit.

Some Conservatives earnestly desire no deal and a default to World Trade Organisation rules,
a prospect that was neither on the ballot paper nor endorsed by the “leave” campaigns.

The Brexit syndrome came into play as soon as it was obvious that Patel would go.
Having replaced Fallon with a fellow remainer in Gavin Williamson,
a weakened prime minister was seen to have no option but to appoint another Brexiteer, and another woman, to the new vacancy.
.....
Patel was not sacked over the phone but ordered to return home immediately from Kenya.
For a full day her journey was tracked on rolling news and parodied on social media.
“What got me was the ghost flight back from Africa.
I couldn’t understand why she or any of us were put through that,” wailed a senior official.
....
Unlike Major in his perilous years of de facto minority government, she has no praetorian guard of impressive political allies around her.

When the going got tough, Major relied on the vociferous loyalty of heavyweights
including Michael Heseltine, Douglas Hurd, Kenneth Clarke, Gillian Shephard, John Wakeham, Malcolm Rifkind, Ian Lang and Lord Cranborne.
There is no such roster of talent in today’s cabinet,
let alone a long list of colleagues prepared to give May outspoken public support.

Major’s “bastards” and their allies on the back benches were easily identified usual suspects.
Today’s “bastards” are all around May.
....
Boris Johnson is no Douglas Hurd, but he is the foreign secretary May still has.
As a public servant his offence over Nazanin Zaghari-Ratcliffe was more egregious than those known to have been committed by Fallon or Patel.

Yet he never looked in danger of losing his job.
....
Johnson had no need to resort to skulduggery.
He is too well known, too talismanic for Brexiteers
— and too much of a potential threat for the prime minister — to be sackable.
Even if she wanted to and there is little evidence she does.

When May makes a gesture towards pro-Europeans, it seems she usually matches it with a rather larger one to Brexit enthusiasts.

Patel was a dispensable thorn in her side.
Having removed it, the prime minister was in good form later the same evening at a gala dinner celebrating Paul Dacre’s quarter-century in charge of the Daily Mail, her most stalwart supporter in the national press.
....
May: “We will not tolerate attempts from any quarter to use the process of amendments to this bill as a mechanism to try to block the democratic wishes of the British people by attempting to slow down or stop our departure from the European Union.”

But who is “we”?
Amendments are a matter for the Speaker and votes are in the hands of MPs.

Lord Kerr (A50 author):
We are not required to withdraw just because Mrs May sent her letter.
We can change our minds at any stage during the process.”

Another former Foreign Office head, Sir Simon Fraser, lectured the foreign policy think tank Chatham House on Britain after Brexit.
While not hiding his distaste for the decision, he gamely tried to suggest how he thought Britain could make the best of it.
His influential audience was not interested.
They wanted to know how Brexit could be stopped.
....
So long as Brexit legislation dominates parliamentary business, a major defeat for the government remains a live possibility
if troubled Conservative MPs were to combine with Labour.

The government could also come under attack from another direction.
Gordon Brown .... predicts public opinion will turn by next summer because
the red lines promised by the Brexit campaigners will have been breached in an “inadequate agreement . . . we will not have proper control of our border . . . our money . . . our courts . . . or our trade”.

If Brown is right, the Brexiteers could launch a torpedo against the deal and the government.

May faces the prolonged agony of trying to survive Commons votes night after night
.... If they can hold a majority in the Commons there is nothing forcing them to face the voters before the summer of 2022.

May still hopes for a relaunch to build a legacy away from Brexit
. ....
Both Hammond and May accept that they have nothing left to lose but their jobs.
...
May’s dependence on Hammond is greater because of the pickle in which her hand-picked deputy [Green] finds himself.
..... even Green’s friends doubt he will survive the investigation by the Cabinet Office propriety and ethics team.

In most organisations, pornography on a work computer is grounds for instant dismissal, even if it is not illegal.
The inappropriate conduct alleged against Green is about on a par with what got Fallon sacked.

Either a botched budget or Green’s departure could tip May out of No 10 by Christmas, according to some Tory MPs.

They are not entirely despondent about the party’s prospects under its next leader.
Optimists argue that on 40% in the latest YouGov poll they are “only” 3% behind Labour, compared with Major who fell 43.5% behind.

Tomorrow the search for life after May will get serious.
Amber Rudd, the home secretary, will be guest at the launch of “New Generation — the project for 21st-Century Conservatism”.

Their project aims to find “the new generation” from the 2015 and 2017 cohorts of MPs, and other fresh voices, to make that case.
They seem to have already given up on Theresa May.

Cailleach1 · 12/11/2017 12:48

Isn't it surprising how the journo didn't stay around to pursue that, Somerville?

Gosh, I'd love to be somewhere I would be regarded a youngster until 60.

woman11017 · 12/11/2017 12:50

Also somerville shows what absolute bollox we're getting from the proddy mainland media.
The black out on having non unionists interviewed during the war seems to have carried through especially since 2010

lalalonglegs · 12/11/2017 12:50

BCF ALL ballot papers are numbered, there's nothing sinister in that on its own.

OnTheDarkSideOfTheSpoon · 12/11/2017 13:10

broken I agree with everything you’ve said. I think that the Russian interference is a huge deal and shouldn’t be dismissed. It’s what has propelled Brexit, trump etc and it should be dealt with, not ignored. I also think we should excise all of the corruption, not just Russian, but that doesn’t mean pretending that all the Russian disinformation campaigns haven’t happened and aren’t still posing a threat to democracy.

Somerville · 12/11/2017 13:15

She's a force of nature. Her and several other relatives of that generation have a favourite activity: insisting at large family gatherings that the conversation is conducted in Irish - a language they never had a chance to learn when they were young, and still know little of. But they love hearing all the weans at it, and sit back listening wistfully.

Something else she told me "Them feckers (DUP) and our feckers (SF leadership) need their heads cracking together. Shame them chuckle brothers aren't here to get them in line."
Chuckle brothers explanation.
Not that Ian Paisley managed to keep his lot in line, ultimately. But occasional glimpses show what can be achieved when both communities work together, and that the DUP have, on occasion, aligned themselves with their Catholic neighbours to stand up to Westminster, when they think there is something to be gained.
If the situation for NI looks bleak enough financially, maybe they'll do it again. Maybe.

BigChocFrenzy · 12/11/2017 13:24

lala I know UK ballot papers are numbered, but it is in such a way as to maintain anonymity
The Hungarian poster said the number allocation in Hungary was not like this - and he thought votes against the hard right govt line could be tracked back.

If enough voters believe this, even if Russian intelligence can't track voters, or don't bother to invest resources in doing so, the intimidation of voters works

BigChocFrenzy · 12/11/2017 13:26

The RoI govt has published a very comprehensive report - aimed at business leaders - on RoI strategy for coping with Brexit

All affected countries seem to have such a report
Only the Uk public & business is fobbed off with 58 fag papers Angry

The RoI seems to be assuming the worst case Brexit, with the UK at least outside the SM and CU.

https://dbei.gov.ie/en/Publications/Publication-files/Building-Stronger-Business-Responding-to-Brexit-by-competing-innovating-and-trading.pdf

Cailleach1 · 12/11/2017 13:41

love the bit from tracey ullman where may asks hubbie if she should underline 'orderly brexit' a third time and put a box around the words.

i wonder if the 58 impact assessments are as well developed yet?

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