Westministenders: The Return of Parliamentary Sleaze?

[RedToothBrush]

Brexit is quietly going round and round in ever decreasing circles.

The story is that the European parliament will not agree to a transition period beyond 1st January 2020.

The third minister responsible for getting the Repel Bill through the Lords has quit. There are now nearly 400 amendments. It is scheduled for 6 days parliamentary time in the Commons from this coming week. With another 2 possible the following week. Rather bravely AFTER the budget. Bored with May, CVs are being submitted for the position of Chancellor.

Interest Rates are looking likely to rise next week too with the message being 'this is as good as it gets'.

Another team of MPs has gone to the EU to see if they can check up on May and her team. This is unlikely to work as Nicola Sturgeon came across a brick wall.

And then there are the many many distractions from it all.

Catalonia has declared independence, which will consume EU time and energy.

There are rumours that the first prosecution in Trump Russia will be Monday (Guess who is currently in the US. Yep, the gurning one). And there are increasing muttering about Russia over here, with Facebook's Mark Zuckerberg being called to respond to a Select Committee investigation into Fake News.

And then there's the sleaze. Jared O'Mara seems to be the first in the queue. There are rumours more will be outed in several parties. Suggestions include May's right hand man Damien Green who was previously named in 2008. And the Tory Whips have a 'sleaze list' which suggests they know whats going on, but have done nothing.

This morning we have Gove making ill advised jokes about Weinstein in this political climate. With Neil Kinnock laughing heartily in response.

Anything that happens will be political to discredit opponents not because there is a change of attitude towards the treatment of women. We know this, because of who is leading the charge on this. The skeletons are being dusted off out the cupboard rather than exposed for the first time in dramatic fashion.

Things, could take a very unexpected turn against this background.

Don't bet against it.

artisancraftbeer Simon Cox is currently tweeting on the subject.

The point is about how EU law works in conjunction with law that stems from the ECHR. The key point is that while you might be able to deport EU citizens under certain circumstances under EU law, it might not be legal under the law (and indeed English law) under the ECHR because the deportation is, in part, a consequence of being detained.

The argument is that being detained and the government's refusal to provide him with accommodation meaning he can not get bail is a breach of the law and means he is being discriminated against in order to facilitate his deportation.

The issue of whether or not he can be deported is not the core of the issue, but the actions the government are taking in order to get to the point where they can say they are free to deport him lawfully.

The rather dismissive tone of the HO of his rights under the ECHR which suggests that if he wants his ECHR rights he should go to the rest of the EU is troubling.

Its almost pressuring him to just go, rather than uphold his potential rights, forcing him into a situation where he has to go to court to establish under UK law whether the actions of the HO are lawful and whether his rights have been violated. Obviously no everyone would be able to do this because of the prohibitive cost of challenging the HO over it. It raises the question over how often this is happening, the general regard for rights within the HO and how it suggests that if you want rights, don't stay in the UK.

Perhaps the most interesting part of what Simon Cox says is how this has very nearly been established in court - and the previous back down at the last minute - perhaps to prevent a legal precedent being set.

Simon Cox‏*@SimonFRCox*

Rudd’s officials step up their legal discrimination against EU citizens. Thread. 1/
In 2016, HO began deporting EU cits reported by charities as without settled accommodation. Campaigners opposed 2/
nelmacampaigns.wordpress.com/home/
Detention is a key HO tool against these EU citizens; tho hardly a “flight risk” - will they leave the UK?? 3/
Detention helps HO make case for deportation bc it makes it harder for migrants to show they are economically active. > 4/
Under EU law, temporary work makes a citizen a worker - even if it’s a job that lasts a day. 5/
Being locked up blocks access to this work, and detainee’s find it hard to corroborate case that they would find work if released 6/
So getting released can be crucial for EU citizen to prove her/his right to live in UK as an economically active person. 7/
HO policy of maximising is detention powers means finding excuses not to release people. One of these is “s/he has no place to stay”. 8/
Over years, migrants, lawyers & campaigners countered this excuse with Section 4 of Immigration & Asylum Act 1999 9/
www.legislation.gov.uk/ukpga/1999/33/section/4
HO policy is that s4 accommodation must be made available where lack of accomm is obstacle to release on bail 10/
But HO is often divided & conflicted about its own pro-migrant policies, with some senior & junior staff trying to weaken them. 11/
These “hardliners” look for ways not to apply policies, like delaying, ignoring or finding exceptions. 12/
One exception to Section 4 accommodation is Schedule 3 to the Nationality Immigration & Asylum Act 2002 13/
www.legislation.gov.uk/ukpga/2002/41/schedule/3
Sch 3 applies to accommodation under Imm & Asylum Act 1999 (para 1(1)l) & bars providing it to ppl Schedule applies to (para 1) 14/
Sch 3 says it applies to all EEA citizens (para 3) - which includes all EU cits (bc EU states are parties to EEA agreement) 15/
(Using “EEA” to mean all EU + EEA states of Norway, Iceland & Liechtenstein) is common in UK laws. Bc all have same rights under EU law) 16/
But would break EU law to bar EU cits from social support in para 1 (which is most non-cash support). That’s illegal discrimination 17/
So Sch 3 doesn’t apply if it would break EU law to apply it: or break human rights law (para 3). 18/
HO letter to Romanian man they detained talked abt his EU law & human rights, because to deny s4 accommodation, Sch 3 needs this covered 19/
New legal territory for HO afaik. Policy of deporting EU cits as non-econ active is new, so denials of s4 accom to EU cits is new AFAIK 20/
But is it legal? Sch 3 says s4 accommodation can be denied to a Romanian because he is an EU cit. That’s blatant discrimination 21/
EU law bars governments from discriminating on grounds of nationality of an EU state: Article 18 TFEU. Unless an exception applies. 22/
EU law allows UK to deport EU cits (where strict conditions met) & to detain them pending (if necessary) even tho UK cits can’t be 23/
But does EU law allow a UK law like Sch 3 that denies accom “just because” the person is an EU cit? How is that justified? 24/
Afaik this legal issue hasnt been decided by UK courts. I argued it in High Court a long time ago against Lambeth Council > 25/
Lambeth had cut off day care to a mentally disabled Portuguese woman long resident in UK with her family. Judge heard the legal argument 26/
but when he was ready with judgment, Lambeth said wd give my client back her services & pay her legal costs if we agreed to no judgment 27/
But if Rudd really does want to keep EU cits locked up based on discriminatory denial of accomm, she may end up in court. 28/28

The shorter answer to the question is that his rights under the ECHR are separate to his rights as an EU citizens.

If his rights under the ECHR are being violated in order for the government to get a deportation they can defend under EU law, then that's not acceptable.

We should be concerned over the HO's attitude to ECHR rights and how they are willing to try and ignore the law over discrimination in other areas to achieve their goal.

steve hawkes‏*@steve*_hawkes (Deputy Political Editor of The Sun)
Jeremy Corbyn wants sexual abuse victims to come forward? His office denied Sarah Champion a meeting about the issue last week

We should be concerned over the HO's attitude to ECHR rights
yy red again.

Sexism being appropriated and weaponised by the race and gender in power, again. Whoda thunk it.

On R4 question time, I noticed that the loudest cheer was for the EU funding received by the west country area in which it was taking place.

I understand that local activism for Remain is getting under the skin of incumbent Leaver MPs, I still think it's worth shouting about what is happening locally to benefit local communities courtesy of EU funding.

This link is a bit general, but might be useful.

www.theguardian.com/society/2016/may/31/what-has-the-eu-ever-done-for-my-town

ec.europa.eu/unitedkingdom/business-funding_en

www.huffingtonpost.co.uk/entry/theresa-may-to-write-to-john-bercow-over-sexual-harassment-culture-in-parliament_uk_59f5a412e4b077d8dfca1208?ncid=tweetlnkukhpmg00000001
Theresa May To Write To John Bercow Over Sexual Harassment Culture In Parliament
PM will seek Speaker's advice on 'changing the culture' in Westminster.

Politics To English Translation: Theresa May to write to John Bercow to dodge the bullet of responsibility and to try and pass it to someone else, so she is not seen to be the one making decisions, thus making it either to take no action, or if action is forced to be able to put her hands in the air say "its not my fault, that's the rules".

So she doesn't want to take the lead or be seen to be taking a lead. She isn't confident enough to condemn her own and needs assistance to tackle the problem where it exists in the party she leads.

Thank you RTB.

Sugartits and Sexting must be middle class I guess.

I am placemat king and not much else - my marriage blew up yesterday so my head is not with politics.

Thank you RTB for the Simon Cox link. That makes much more sense about where the treaty rights might allow the government to do one thing, but in implicit contravention of the ECHR and why it is government actions causing that breach. That had not been properly explained in the news report I’d read earlier.

pointy

pointy - hope you’re ok.

I share the skepticism that this farrago is anything to do with cleaning up Westminster and everything to do with some groups smearing others. I’m fairly certain that the more senior and right wing perpetrators will be the ones that get off. Thought this was just me being paranoid. (Again, like Hashi I want to make it clear that I’m not making excuses for anyone here. They should all go if the allegations hold water.)

pointy hope you're ok

Politics To English Translation: Theresa May to write to John Bercow to dodge the bullet of responsibility and to try and pass it to someone else, so she is not seen to be the one making decisions, thus making it either to take no action, or if action is forced to be able to put her hands in the air say "its not my fault, that's the rules".

I'm so cross about this. It's flipping sexual harassment. Company HR depts deal with this every day. She needs to grow a backbone and deal with the men involved. Properly I.e. investigating and potential withdrawing the whip in the meantime

If she does anything else it's effectively admitting her party comes ahead of women's right not to harassed and gives dodgy MPs the green light to continue abusing colleagues.

So infuriating they have known this for a while but not dealt with it. Bunch of incompetents.

Yeah, I'm OK. H is an alcoholic newly out of rehab, he has relapsed. So now we are over. It's shit, but at least I now have an end point to work towards. And I don't mean Brexit.

I agree with those who are calling 'squirrel' wrt to all the sleaze revelations.

That’s so sad pointy to you and your children.

for pointy.

pointy

Thanks Red.

Things could take a very unexpected turn against this background. Don't bet against it.

Completely agree. I think all bets are off.

I don't mean AT ALL to trivialise the experiences of anyone who was subject to harassment or abuse, but I also agree the timing of the sleaze stuff is somewhat suspicious.

Sorry things are shit at the moment for you, pointy.

Meanwhile in Catalonia:
@matthewbennett
There are quite a lot of Spanish flags in the centre of Barcelona right now, given it's supposed to be the second day of the new republic…

EU flag mafia aren't going anywhere soon, here either.

Blinking flags. I'd ban flags that people haven't knitted if I could choose.
(I'd allow patchwork and crocheted ones too. )

@ThatTimWalker

Why is May still so oddly silent about a member of her cabinet joking about rape? He's an untouchable Brexiteer who answers only to Murdoch.

All male chauvinists are equal but some are more equal than others?

pointy

I'm not sure what John Bercow can bring to the table on the various stories and claims emerging about sleazy MPS...

Jeremy Hunt manages to be patronizing in the extreme here, with his comments that "mums and dads" are the ones who should be concerned about their daughters going into politics, rather than the actual grown women themselves who are being harassed

Re blackmailing MPs to vote, remember that you cannot blackmail someone who hasn't done something embarassing...

The Stephen Crabb affair last year was quite revealing about mp’s mindsets:-

“Stephen Crabb sent messages to the woman on Whatsapp. The messages allegedly show Mr Crabb telling the woman he wanted to kiss her “everywhere” and stating his desire to perform a sex act on her.

The exchanges also allegedly show Mr Crabb discussing the issue of MPs being involved in public scandals, saying: “Most MPs are risk takers to one degree or another. Usually in the areas of money, sex, political opportunism. Add in the adrenalin, the attention u get, and the time away from family… toxic mix.”

What quality representation we have.

Sorry folks:
@J_amesp
Advance apology: one of the threads this weekend was part of an experiment identifying additional bot net segments. Naughty but necessary.
@J_amesp
Clue Assange.
P.S. the data is accurate though.
Don't quite get this at all now. He did later 'catch' fake account.

It seems to be going mainstream as a story though, CNN ran a piece on it.
edition.cnn.com/2017/10/27/politics/trump-campaign-wikileaks-cambridge-analytica/index.html?sr=twCNN102717trump-campaign-wikileaks-cambridge-analytica1246PMVODtop

And NF has called it Carole Cadwalladr's story 'fake news' so..........
@carolecadwalla
Wow.
Someone’s rattled.
Nigel Farage takes to airwaves to accuse me of ‘fake news’

Despite Remainers becoming stronger in their views, Leave vote is staying stable. Dominic Grieve at that EU conference this week encouraged Remain to keep campaigning to change public opinion.
Until this digital toxicity is challenged legally and powerfully, it's looking difficult to do.