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Brexit

Westministenders: The Return of Parliamentary Sleaze?

989 replies

RedToothBrush · 28/10/2017 14:35

Brexit is quietly going round and round in ever decreasing circles.

The story is that the European parliament will not agree to a transition period beyond 1st January 2020.

The third minister responsible for getting the Repel Bill through the Lords has quit. There are now nearly 400 amendments. It is scheduled for 6 days parliamentary time in the Commons from this coming week. With another 2 possible the following week. Rather bravely AFTER the budget. Bored with May, CVs are being submitted for the position of Chancellor.

Interest Rates are looking likely to rise next week too with the message being 'this is as good as it gets'.

Another team of MPs has gone to the EU to see if they can check up on May and her team. This is unlikely to work as Nicola Sturgeon came across a brick wall.

And then there are the many many distractions from it all.

Catalonia has declared independence, which will consume EU time and energy.

There are rumours that the first prosecution in Trump Russia will be Monday (Guess who is currently in the US. Yep, the gurning one). And there are increasing muttering about Russia over here, with Facebook's Mark Zuckerberg being called to respond to a Select Committee investigation into Fake News.

And then there's the sleaze. Jared O'Mara seems to be the first in the queue. There are rumours more will be outed in several parties. Suggestions include May's right hand man Damien Green who was previously named in 2008. And the Tory Whips have a 'sleaze list' which suggests they know whats going on, but have done nothing.

This morning we have Gove making ill advised jokes about Weinstein in this political climate. With Neil Kinnock laughing heartily in response.

Anything that happens will be political to discredit opponents not because there is a change of attitude towards the treatment of women. We know this, because of who is leading the charge on this. The skeletons are being dusted off out the cupboard rather than exposed for the first time in dramatic fashion.

Things, could take a very unexpected turn against this background.

Don't bet against it.

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Thread gallery
42
mathanxiety · 03/11/2017 01:40

www.theguardian.com/news/2017/oct/27/the-war-against-pope-francis
Francis is a very pure example of the “outer-directed” or extrovert Catholic, especially compared with his immediate predecessors. His opponents are the introverts. Many were first attracted to the church by its distance from the concerns of the world. A surprising number of the most prominent introverts are converts from American Protestantism, some driven by the shallowness of the intellectual resources they were brought up with, but much more by a sense that liberal Protestantism was dying precisely because it no longer offered any alternative to the society around it. They want mystery and romance, not sterile common sense or conventional wisdom. No religion could flourish without that impulse.

They are barking up the wrong tree, and so is the writer of that last sentence.

The article, like so many articles detailing unhappiness from another direction entirely with Francis' predecessor Benedict, attempts to drum up a sense of drama, with its portrayal of 'powerful' cardinals, factions lining up for battle, quotes off the record from terrified snitches, etc.

JRM represents a small group on the looney fringe. The vast majority of RCs are perfectly ok with things as they are and fond of the Pope.

The rich and powerful have always exploited loopholes. When they want to shuck off a wife and remarry, a good lawyer will find some way to prove the first marriage was a mistake, not something entered into in the spirit the church demands, and so it can be wiped from the record – in the jargon, annulled.

This is BS.

Annulment is not a process that requires money apart from a nominal administrative fee, nor is it a question of jargon. There is a standard process involving interviews with the divorced parties (the annulment process does not start until a couple have been divorced, i.e. until the civil aspect of the marriage has been legally ended), written submissions from the parties in answer to a long questionnaire, and written submissions from witnesses in response to more general prompts.

The matter at issue is the canonical validity of the marriage. A canon law judge or tribunal and a 'defender of the bond' take the case and argue its merits. Once a decision has been reached, the case automatically passes to a second tribunal to be appealed. Parties can appeal a decision to the Roman Rota. The judgement that is handed down is that the marriage was or was not canonically valid at the time the parties entered into it.

“The Catholic Church ought to be countercultural in the wake of the sexual revolution,” says Ross Douthat. “The Catholic church is the last remaining place in the western world that says divorce is bad.”
This is an individual trying to tell the RC Church how it should handle a difficult matter that affects millions of Catholics.

In practice the RC church is very often the place where people involved in marriages that are the opposite of life-enhancing, and where children are being exposed to the opposite of how people should treat each other can find a compassionate response that includes advice to divorce, a lift to a battered women's shelter, help finding a divorce lawyer, financial support from a parish when a former spouse fails to provide child support, etc.. If anyone were to take this article seriously, they might imagine droves of people shunned and miserable and grim faced priests pointing them to the door.

I am neither rich nor powerful and I did not need a lawyer to get an annulment after civil divorce. The annulment process was very cathartic and very healing for me after years of a really horrible marriage and divorce. It was also conducted in a completely above board and transparent way, in a very well established and properly conducted process.

That article contrasts with this one:
www.theguardian.com/world/2016/apr/08/pope-francis-amoris-laetitia-how-the-papacy-tackles-the-key-issues
Amoris Laetitia (The Joy of Love) runs to 256 pages, in which Pope Francis attempts to address all aspects of modern family life. The document follows a three-year global consultation, including two lengthy summits in Rome attended by bishops from around the world.

Francis has not made any significant changes to doctrine but the language and tone of the document are notably inclusive and gentle. Critically, the introduction says that priests and bishops must use their judgment in considering individuals’ circumstances, indicating that church teaching should not be applied rigidly.

(Sorry for the detour.)

Peregrina · 03/11/2017 05:43

I was musing last night of the parallels between Major and May's Governments, and the way they both seem to be falling apart amid corruption. Major has undergone something of a re-evaluation since he left office, and seems to be better thought of than at the time. He has the big success of initiating the Good Friday Agreement to his name.

Will May be thought of more kindly by history? I suspect not - at the Home Office she was a failure, and currently is on course to remain one as a PM, unless a miracle happens for her.

RedToothBrush · 03/11/2017 07:53

Another incident which should be serious enough to resign over. Expect lots of excuses and nothing to happen

www.bbc.com/news/amp/uk-politics-41853561
Priti Patel held undisclosed meetings in Israel

The International Development Secretary held undisclosed meetings in Israel without telling the Foreign Office while accompanied by a powerful pro-Israeli Conservative lobbyist, the BBC has learned.

Went whilst supposed to be on holiday. Didn't tell FCO. Went at suggestion of Israeli Ambassador. Accompanied by pro Israel lobbyist. Apparently looking for funding and support for leadership bid.

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RedToothBrush · 03/11/2017 07:54

Peregrina, to date name one thing May has achieved whilst PM.

One. Go on. Try.

I'm struggling.

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Motheroffourdragons · 03/11/2017 07:56

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RedToothBrush · 03/11/2017 08:05

amp.theguardian.com/uk-news/2017/nov/02/child-benefit-rules-in-northern-ireland-may-criminalise-women
Child benefit rules in Northern Ireland may criminalise women
Lawyers confirm that women seeking exemption from two-child limit due to rape, may risk legal action if they did not report sex crime to police

This exemption, known by opponents as the rape clause, has prompted huge controversy, but has a particular repercussion in Northern Ireland where it is an offence to not report a crime to the police. The offence carries a maximum penalty of two years in prison.

Ffs

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lalalonglegs · 03/11/2017 08:08

"Downing Street said that Priti Patel had done nothing wrong." (From R4 news)

It's genuinely shocking that a fairly disposable and unpopular minister can make a trip to a diplomatically-sensitive region, allegedly to garner funding for her own leadership ambitions - donations which would be hugely controversial and divisive - and the government and PM are so weak that she doesn't even get a slap on the wrists.

prettybird · 03/11/2017 08:08

This is not news SadAngry

Unfortunately, the momentum behind the petition about the rape clause was lost when the GE was called and all petitions running at the time were killed Angry

RedToothBrush · 03/11/2017 08:08

I need to get this off my chest. Gavin Williamson has a particular look about him which plays to certain stereotypes. Every time I see a photo of him I want to draw horns, a pitched fork and a tail on the photo. I can not under it. I know you should not make comments about appearance but it's just nagging away at me and I need to share to unburden it.

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HashiAsLarry · 03/11/2017 08:10

Harking back a bit to yesterday and the fails spread on Kate Maltby.

It reminded me of a few years back at a significant birthday for my df. There was a man there I was having a flirtation with and on his way out he gave me a reciprocated kiss on the cheek. My df the next day was in uproar that this man had touched me, which you'd think was fair enough except for the fact that it wasn't uninvited or unwanted and one of dfs mates old enough to be my grandad was groping me repetitively during the evening which was hilarious apparently and I should totally lighten up about it. Angry

I've often wondered where the age cut off is for inappropriate to become hilarious.

Mistigri · 03/11/2017 08:19

RTB GW looks quite creepy doesn't he? It's not about looks but about demeanour.

He needs to shed the crocodile grin pronto.

Motheroffourdragons · 03/11/2017 08:25

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Figmentofmyimagination · 03/11/2017 08:52

rtb that's how I've always felt about a few of them, but especially Raab, Mathew Hancock and (today I think I'll be) Grant Schapps.

There is something about the middle aged conservative 'look'. The new chief whip Julian ..... has it too, as I noticed in yesterday's picture in the Guardian. Of course it could be that I read a liberal-leaning paper whose picture editors are bound to seek out the most arrogant and entitled looking photos!

woman11017 · 03/11/2017 09:10

the momentum behind the petition about the rape clause was lost when the GE was called
Yep, and I remember right wing/ brexitty posters stating that reports about it were untrue/ exaggerating.
Ah well, live and learn.

woman11017 · 03/11/2017 09:37

Sir Michael Fallon resigned after Andrea Leadsom accused him of sexually inappropriate language

Mr Fallon was accused of making a series of lewd comments while on the Treasury Committee Hmm

www.independent.co.uk/news/uk/politics/michael-fallon-andrea-leadsom-accuse-sexual-harassment-resign-conservative-defence-secretary-tory-a8034991.html

Smells a bit gaslighty in here don't it?

LurkingHusband · 03/11/2017 09:54

You know all the people pearl-clutching and saying that they could never ever watch Kevin Spacey in anything again, and that he had ruined their memories of great films ?

(This is despite anything being proved so far).

I wonder where the political equivalent is ? Because unless my speakers are bust, I don't hear people pearl-clutching and saying that Fallon has ruined all these policies he voted on ....

I did like this Onion gem:

“It’s for the best. I can’t see anyone believing a TV president who’s also a sexual predator.”

JEREMY BREINER • GRAZING SPECIALIST

Peregrina · 03/11/2017 10:01

Some by-election results - not looking too good for the Tories, three LibDem wins and one Labour hold:

Aldwick West (Arun) result:

LDEM: 52.7% (+34.2)
CON: 35.2% (-16.7)
LAB: 8.2% (+8.2)
GRN: 4.0% (+4.0)

Duke's (Sefton) result:

LDEM: 56.0% (+28.4)
CON: 26.3% (-9.4)
LAB: 13.9% (-2.3)
UKIP: 2.3% (-13.5)
GRN: 1.5% (-3.1)

One more Lib Dem win in North Devon, but I haven't found the details yet.

Egremont South (Copeland) result:

LAB: 52.4% (+15.7) HOLD
CON: 47.6% (+26.8)

Two more which I don't know yet, but likely to stay Tory, I think.

OlennasWimple · 03/11/2017 10:01

Hashi - I think the rule is once they are old enough to be your father it's totes hilarious and your supposed to smile sweetly as you're being pawed Angry

Motheroffourdragons · 03/11/2017 10:19

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This has been withdrawn by MNHQ on behalf of the poster.

BigChocFrenzy · 03/11/2017 10:25

MORGAN STANLEY: Theresa May's government will collapse in 2018, triggering a fresh general election

http://www.businessinsider.de/morgan-stanley-may-government-to-collapse-in-2018-2017-9?r=UK&IR=T
.....
"This year, we think that the government makes enough concessions to allow the talks to progress, and the government holds together since the outcome of the talks is still open and Labour are ahead in the polls,"
.....
"Next year, however, we think that the government is likely to fall.

We expect the EU to offer a choice
between a close relationship in which the UK can participate in the single market and customs union but will be bound by the EU rules of the game,
and an arm's length relationship in the UK, in which the UK achieves full sovereignty over borders, courts and laws, but does not participate in the single market and the customs union.

"We think this choice splits the Cabinet and the Conservative party
and will lead to a loss of a vote of no confidence in parliament, triggering early elections."

OlennasWimple · 03/11/2017 10:28

Peregrina - May's legacy is an interesting question. Obviously it depends whether she manages to hang onto power until Brexit. If she doesn't, she becomes a pub quiz answer ("Name the longest serving Home Secretary?"). If she does, I think she will end up being described as a successful Home Sec (bear with me!) who feel foul of the Peter Principle about being promoted one grade beyond competence.

I think that "successful Home Sec" has become something of an oxymoron these days, and it's hard to name someone who has done a better job than her (Blunkett? Reid? Jacqui Smith?). Whereas her supporters can point out that, apart from her longevity, she scrapped ID cards, pushed through needed police reforms, got rid of Abu Qatada, etc etc.

On the other hand, I strongly suspect that history will be much kinder to David Cameron than he deserves. Essentially people will think of him and Nick in the Rose Garden, and forget that he was responsible for fucking up the referendum

Motheroffourdragons · 03/11/2017 10:29

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This has been withdrawn by MNHQ on behalf of the poster.

OnionShite · 03/11/2017 10:41

I wonder where the political equivalent is ? Because unless my speakers are bust, I don't hear people pearl-clutching and saying that Fallon has ruined all these policies he voted on

That could be at least partially because he'd need some relevance and resonance with the general public for that. Barely anyone knew anything about Fallon until his resignation. He is the definition of beige, a mediocrity. I follow politics closely and even so, I was still only dimly aware of him. Whatever else there is to say about Kevin Spacey, he isn't short of talent.

LurkingHusband · 03/11/2017 10:47

For me it's as if nearly all previous Prime Ministers - even Cameron - have been writing in the main part of the diary whilst May is just scribbling in the footnotes, even as she is PM.

Holliewantstobehot · 03/11/2017 10:53

Boris does have a clue. Its just he's like Trump. He contradicts himself, hopes people don't notice, or if they do just ignores it. He's like a toddler who's adamant he has only ever liked the train when yesterday he liked the truck. In fact he reminds me a lot of my sisters mil who lives in her own world, constantly rewrites history and refuses to deal with or remember anything vaguely uncomfortable or difficult.

I too respect John Major more in later years. I don't think history will be kind to TM, but my heart won't bleed for her. John Major also has the redeeming characteristic of having called John Redwood a bastard.