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Brexit

Westministenders: The Return of Parliamentary Sleaze?

989 replies

RedToothBrush · 28/10/2017 14:35

Brexit is quietly going round and round in ever decreasing circles.

The story is that the European parliament will not agree to a transition period beyond 1st January 2020.

The third minister responsible for getting the Repel Bill through the Lords has quit. There are now nearly 400 amendments. It is scheduled for 6 days parliamentary time in the Commons from this coming week. With another 2 possible the following week. Rather bravely AFTER the budget. Bored with May, CVs are being submitted for the position of Chancellor.

Interest Rates are looking likely to rise next week too with the message being 'this is as good as it gets'.

Another team of MPs has gone to the EU to see if they can check up on May and her team. This is unlikely to work as Nicola Sturgeon came across a brick wall.

And then there are the many many distractions from it all.

Catalonia has declared independence, which will consume EU time and energy.

There are rumours that the first prosecution in Trump Russia will be Monday (Guess who is currently in the US. Yep, the gurning one). And there are increasing muttering about Russia over here, with Facebook's Mark Zuckerberg being called to respond to a Select Committee investigation into Fake News.

And then there's the sleaze. Jared O'Mara seems to be the first in the queue. There are rumours more will be outed in several parties. Suggestions include May's right hand man Damien Green who was previously named in 2008. And the Tory Whips have a 'sleaze list' which suggests they know whats going on, but have done nothing.

This morning we have Gove making ill advised jokes about Weinstein in this political climate. With Neil Kinnock laughing heartily in response.

Anything that happens will be political to discredit opponents not because there is a change of attitude towards the treatment of women. We know this, because of who is leading the charge on this. The skeletons are being dusted off out the cupboard rather than exposed for the first time in dramatic fashion.

Things, could take a very unexpected turn against this background.

Don't bet against it.

OP posts:
Thread gallery
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HashiAsLarry · 31/10/2017 23:41

Patent protected drugs are normally the highly priced ones. We tend to know them by their patented name - prozac rather than fluoxetine, viagra rather than sildenafil for example. Once they're off patent, its a different ball game. If the drugs are off patent, and there's no one able to fulfil the needs then it can be a massive money spinner if no one sees the merits in producing the drug to certain standards. You can be essentially stuck in patent protected mode.

HesterThrale · 31/10/2017 23:44

Farage requests a meeting with Barnier.

Westministenders: The Return of Parliamentary Sleaze?
Cailleach1 · 01/11/2017 00:13

How does he know that 17.4 million people didn't want a transition deal. What a load of grandstanding bull. He has failed to be elected as an MP several times, and his party only ever won one single seat to the national parliament.

For sure, UKIP got 24 out of 73 MEP seats. One third. Maybe that is why the interests of the UK were never properly represented. If only he attended the meetings he is supposed to.

Does he have something on BBC? I remember he was asked to comment on the Cons (on the DP) and election shenanigans. Yet silence on his own dodgy goings on.

mathanxiety · 01/11/2017 04:51

I must admit I have been surprised to see various MPs in recent days (and in fact over the past year) described as conservative Christians or fundamentalist Christians. I will confess to having held the assumption that the CoE was the Conservative Party at prayer...

So I did a little googling and came up with a tentative link between Brexit and the holding of fundamentalist views.

I found these interesting:
www.baptist.org.uk/Articles/462960/Why_Brexit_is.aspx

www.christiansinpolitics.org.uk/eufocus/eu-latest/the-democratic-imperative-a-christian-case-for-brexit/

There are more, I am sure.
Not sure what their reach might be.

Bolshybookworm · 01/11/2017 06:26

We have family friends that voted leave because they think the Euro is predicted in the book of revelations, math Hmm

I would say that for most of the evangelical christians I know though, the leave/remain split is similar to the general public and boils down to age, education and your political views. The young evangelical Christian's I know voted remain.

Mistigri · 01/11/2017 06:54

I don't know any evangelicals in the UK but as a general rule I would say it makes sense that having fundamentalist (or highly orthodox, in the sense of following for eg Catholic dogma to the letter) religious views correlates with having very black-and-white political views, and vice versa.

frumpety · 01/11/2017 07:16

WRT the price hikes on generic medication , the BBC are running with prescription fraud in the NHS this morning Hmm

LurkingHusband · 01/11/2017 07:27

Peregrina and I think LH at least are old enough to remember the "family values" that John Major wished to return to when he took over from Thatcher.

I remember a soapbox, peas, and coneline ....

BigChocFrenzy · 01/11/2017 07:39

IMPORTANT: Does this KILL May's entire Brexit strategy ?

(paywall) Theresa May’s Brexit strategy hits a legal minefield

http://www.telegraph.co.uk/business/2017/10/31/theresa-mays-brexit-strategy-hits-legal-minefield/

Theresa May’s quest for a “Canada plus” deal in Brexit talks has run into serious legal obstacles and may ultimately prove impossible, risking bitter disappointment and a political crisis next year as reality hits home.

Trade lawyers and European officials warn that even if the EU wants to grant the UK a bespoke deal that preserves unfettered access for goods and services, it cannot do so without granting parallel concessions to Canada, South Korea, and other countries that have free trade agreements.
This would open up a Pandora’s Box.

“It is a minefield. Financial institutions are fully of aware of the problem but we have not yet heard anything from the Government,”
Chris Bryant, an EU expert at lawyers Brewin Leighton Paisner.

Theresa May stated in Florence last month that a deal based on the Canadian CETA arrangement would not be acceptable for Britain since it would restrict trade and amount to a step backwards.
“We can do so much better than this,” she said.

Downing Street is pursuing a “Canada plus, plus, plus” model that goes much further and aims at replicating the EU Single Market and the Customs Union without actually being in either, and without having to comply with free movement.

It has long been understood that Brussels views this as ‘cherry picking’.
What Mrs May’s advisors may have underestimated is the legal conundrum.
......
Sir Ivan Rogers, the UK’s former ambassador in Brussels, told the Treasury Select Committee last week that
the offer is likely to look like “Canada Dry” once the EU side has shaved off all the illusory pluses.
....
“I think we’ll have a row straight away in 2018 on the scope and ambit of a free trade agreement,”
....
Canada’s CETA deal with the EU contains ‘Most Favoured Nation’ clauses in Articles 8.7 and 13.4 covering investment and services.
These stipulate that if any other country is granted better terms, Canada has an automatic right to an equivalent upgrade.

South Korea has its own variant, and so do other countries or blocs in various ways.
Japan will join the list when its EU deal is signed off.

This means that better access for Britain would have far-reaching implications
and would lead to ratification problems in Europe, starting with the Walloon parliament.
< even if they had been prepared to make the UK a privileged exception - a very big if - they won't vote to give all these privileges to every country that has a current or future FTA with the EU >

Milagros Miranda Rojas, a trade lawyer at Norton Rose Fulbright, said
the EU would have to grant all these countries better terms without getting anything in return.
The UK is aiming for something that may simply be “impossible”.

Trade experts say the only way to avoid triggering these MFN clauses is if Britain’s deal with the EU meets a set of core conditions:
it must create an “internal market” with free flows of goods, services, capital, and people, and must have equivalent legislation.

This would be tantamount to the Norwegian model in the European Economic Area,
which does replicate the single market, while allowing Norway to negotiate fresh trade deals with the rest of the world.
In theory it permits some sort of emergency brake on migration and has a pre-Maastricht definition of free movement – a right to work rather than EU citizenship rights.
.....
Theresa May and Boris Johnson have both ruled it out categorically.
.....
The MFN clauses have further complications.
Canada or Korea cannot offer the UK better trade terms on post-Brexit deals than those they have already granted the EU or the US without offering the same to them too.

Professor Simon Hicks from the London School of Economics said
Britain’s ties with South Korea may become more restrictive – whatever the UK wants – for hard-nosed technical reasons.

The section on legal services in the EU-South Korea deal was basically drafted for the UK

< an example of the influence the UK used to have >
The five EU-based laws firms in Seoul are all British.
This access would become a bargaining chip in post-Brexit trade talks.

Even if Korea offered the UK the same terms that it has now, problems would still arise.
British-built cars, for example, currently have tariff-free access to Korea because they meet the 55pc threshold of components originating from the EU.
After Brexit only the British components would count, and the average UK car falls short at 41pc.

Most British vehicle exports to Korea would face an 8pc tariff until the supply-chain was radically altered.

Hae-Won Jun from the Korea National Diplomatic Academy said
the Koreans will drive a harder bargain with the UK than they did with the EU-Korea deal simply because of relative economic power.
< too obvious for our "party of business" to realise >

“The UK outside the EU will be a ‘second tier’ player, considerably weaker than the ‘big three’, the US, the EU, and China.
Global Britain does not look quite as attractive from Seoul as it might seem from London,”
she said.

Britain’s pursuit of the ‘Canada plus, plus, plus’ option assumes that the obstacles are chiefly political, and that Brussels will find some way to finesse legal headaches.
This is a recipe for a painful awakening next year.
By then businesses will have been forced to trigger contingency plans and to shift operations abroad.

“They are holding on as long as they can but will have act by Christmas or early next year.
They are answerable to their shareholders,”
said Mr Bryant, adding that plans for a transition are useless unless pinned down legally.
“Vague talk is not going to cut the mustard.”

BigChocFrenzy · 01/11/2017 07:44

I had always thought that politically the powerful trading partners like China, Canada, SKorea would try to demand any extra privileges granted to the UK

I hadn't realised that legally every country or bloc with an EU FTA or MFN must receive the same privileges

woman11017 · 01/11/2017 08:13

Normalising 'no deal' is working, to an extent.

Summing it all up, a “no deal” Brexit is not something that the British public actually like the idea of – the majority tend to see it in negative terms or as being bad for Britain. However, placed in a position where negotiations for a better deal have failed, a sizeable minority of people (and a majority of Conservatives and Leave voters) would opt for a “no deal” Brexit. Put in that choice between a rock and a hard place, more people would opt for “no deal Brexit” than would opt for remaining in the EU, though a sizeable chunk would take the option of compromise or delay if offered.

ukpollingreport.co.uk/blog/archives/9953

woman11017 · 01/11/2017 08:14

@bbclaurak

Damian Green has instructed libel lawyers, Kingsley Napley

Bolshybookworm · 01/11/2017 08:17

I think you'd be surprised, misti, at least in the uk. My young evangelical friends are much less socially conservative than my elderly CofE relatives. The big evangelical churches in my area target young people and are a lot more open than the churches I had to go to as a kid e.g. They are not homophobic (big contrast to a lot of older churches) and run a lot of social initiatives in local deprived areas.

I have a lot very religious relatives and their views are as mixed as the general populations tbh.

Bolshybookworm · 01/11/2017 08:21

I feel like the UK is different to the US in that you can completely surround yourself with the church in the US. That's quite hard to do here.

woman11017 · 01/11/2017 08:22

Good programme on data law and repel bill:

www.bbc.co.uk/programmes/b09byr3h

Joshua Rozenberg talks exclusively to the director for legal affairs at the government's signals service GCHQ and asks him why the UK's secret intelligence agency needs lawyers

^ Rozenberg challenged privacy claims of GCHQ lawyers quite firmly.

RedToothBrush · 01/11/2017 08:22

Norman smith @ bbcnormans
William Hague rebuffs idea of a witchhunt at Westminster. - " I don't think it has gone too far .. there is a legitimate problem."

OP posts:
Eeeeeowwwfftz · 01/11/2017 08:22

Why is it never pointed out that "no deal" is in fact a deal over which we have no control?

woman11017 · 01/11/2017 08:26

Wonder what May did know all along?

RedToothBrush · 01/11/2017 08:30

Nadine Dories @ nadinedorries
There is a cultural problem in Westminster. It’s complex. MPs who work late sharing restaurants /bars with young researchers who don’t.
There is a cultural problem in Westminster. It’s complex. MPs who work late sharing restaurants /bars with young researchers who don’t.
Staff remain on Westminster premises drinking whilst MPs voting. Why? Plenty of pubs around London. No other workplace provides bars

Ffs.

And some workplaces do have bars.

OP posts:
woman11017 · 01/11/2017 08:35

It’s complex
Nothing that a few high profile prosecutions under the Equalities Act and Sexual Offences Act wouldn't fix.

IrenetheQuaint · 01/11/2017 08:37

It's entirely possible to "share" a bar with a young researcher without touching them up Hmm

Unless she is suggesting that these drunken young researchers are harrassing ageing MPs when they come down after a late vote, just wanting a quiet pint before they head off

IrenetheQuaint · 01/11/2017 08:38

"I hadn't realised that legally every country or bloc with an EU FTA or MFN must receive the same privileges"

Yes I hadn't understood this either. But surely lots of people who have read the relevant agreements must have done?

AgnesSkinner · 01/11/2017 08:43

Staff remain on Westminster premises drinking whilst MPs voting. Why? Plenty of pubs around London.

But no doubt it’s cheaper to eat and drink in the HoP subsidised bars and restaurants?

prettybird · 01/11/2017 08:58

I had a workplace bar on site when I worked for ICI Hmm - it was our "Soc & Rec Club". Lots of good memories and no groping from my times there. Why would you go out to the pubs outwith the HoP and pay London prices Confused

As dh said this morning, things must be going really badly with Brexit, that the Whips allowed this story to gain legs, given that it's not really a "new" story Hmm

missmoon · 01/11/2017 09:04

On the issue of religion and voting Leave, I'm a (lapsed) catholic, but have relatives / friends who are very religious. They all voted Remain. In fact, my parents' local priest practically told the congregation they had to vote Remain. I think this was partly a reaction to the anti-EU migration tone of the Leave campaign (most Catholic churches in the UK depend heavily on Polish, Italian, Spanish, Portuguese migrants) and partly because of the belief that Brexit would hurt the poor the most.

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