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Westminstenders: Russian Chatbots Take Over Brexit Debate

76 replies

Thatssomecatchthatcatch22 · 31/08/2017 20:32

We have ways of influencing debates on all of the interwebs.

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Rufustherenegadereindeer1 · 31/08/2017 21:09

Fair enough

Im off

Laters randomly

BiglyBadgers · 31/08/2017 21:11

A Brexit vegetable thread might work though.

Will it have pictures of carrots in the shape of Boris Johnson?

Peregrina · 31/08/2017 21:11

I read that we have started growing lentils again in this country. Most at present come from Canada or India, but lack flavour apparently. They aren't vegetables, though, but are legumes, so I am off topic.

BiglyBadgers · 31/08/2017 21:13

I think legumes is fine. I'm inclusive like that.

RandomlyGenerated · 31/08/2017 21:13

Nooo rufus - we need to embrace the aubergine, love the French bean, engage with the Brussels sprout.

Artisanjam · 31/08/2017 21:14

I'm just going to drop a huge marrow here and run away.

RandomlyGenerated · 31/08/2017 21:16

Mind you, we used to have a local curry house that did a Brussels sprout phaal - not something to engage with lightly.

BiglyBadgers · 31/08/2017 21:16

I'm afraid that as much is a love Brussels I just can't get along with their sprouts. Though they are lovely plants. I always think they look like something out a B-movie set and have an urge to place little plastic dinosaurs and robots amoungst them when I see them growing in peoples gardens.

QuentinSummers · 31/08/2017 21:18

Aubergines are ming-o-rama
I'm also not fond of butternut squash

woman12345 · 31/08/2017 21:19

Peregrina many thanks. I agree.

Not only is it a hide under the chair level of embarrassment from DD today, the constitutional window is open to ram through a rushed exit on the say of a minister, bypassing parliament.

And I heard a twitter rumour about this being timed to occur after German election.

If there's one thing we need to nag our MPs about as well as remain, it's voting against this clause. And I know, mine's a tory shit too. But there are actions coming up right through September and across the country.

I will repost Jo Maugham's piece. And kudos to him to for courage in the face of threats.

Again, one can see why the current cabinet would not want anything untoward revealed about them if this constitutional steam roller is on the cards. You know who I'm talking about?

"WHAT HAPPENS IF THE TALKS BREAK DOWN?

The starting point is Article 50. It states:

  1. The Treaties shall cease to apply to the State in question from the date of entry into force of the withdrawal agreement or, failing that, two years after the notification referred to in paragraph 2, unless the European Council, in agreement with the Member State concerned, unanimously decides to extend this period.

So, as a matter of EU law, we leave when a withdrawal agreement says we do or, if there is no withdrawal agreement, two years from the notification.

So walking out of negotiations before the two years are up does not, as a matter of EU law, terminate our EU membership.

What about as a matter of UK law?

Our membership of the EU flows from the European Communities Act 1972. As a matter of UK law we are in the EU so long as that Act says we are.

And what’s key here is who controls the status of that Act.

If the status of the 1972 Act is in Parliament’s hands then it will be for Parliament to choose, should our talks with the EU break down, how to respond. Parliament may choose to react by repealing the European Communities Act 1972 or it may choose some other action.

It is difficult to imagine how Parliament could demand that the PM restart negotiations. But leaving with no deal will have calamitous consequences and, in a world where Brexit had fallen so very far short of the promised cake-and-eat-it uplands, Parliament could well think it right for the electorate to decide whether to leave the EU without a deal or to Remain. And if a Referendum produced a Remain result before 29 March 2019, and the EU consented, we would Remain in the EU as a matter of both UK and EU law.

But the important thing is that the question ‘what action should we take if the talks break down?’ would be for Parliament to answer.

But what if the status of the 1972 Act was outside Parliament’s hands?

That’s a topical question because Parliament is just about to be asked to agree to repeal the 1972 Act in the European Union (Withdrawal) Bill.

The very first clause of that Bill says:

The European Communities Act 1972 is repealed on exit day.

And “exit day” is defined as “such day as a Minister of the Crown may by regulations appoint.”

Yep, that’s right. The government is proposing that a Minister gets to decide when our membership of the EU ends. And to make that decision without any Parliamentary control at all. None, zip, nada.

The consequence of Parliament agreeing to this clause is stark.

If talks do break down, it will be a Minister of the Crown – Boris Johnson, say – who has absolute unfettered discretion as to how to react. Parliament – our sovereign and democratically elected Parliament – will be completely sidelined from the most important decision our nation has made in recent times.

Giving unfettered power to a Minister, marginalising our Parliament, in respect of such an important decision is the very opposite of taking back control.

Parliament must vote against clause one".

Peregrina · 31/08/2017 21:20

Corn on the cob is terribly overrated IMO.

annandale · 31/08/2017 21:20

Love Brussels sprouts. Guess we'd better get used to British veg again after we fall off the cliff. Cabbage all winter if we're lucky and rhubarb the first and only fruit until March.

Artisanjam · 31/08/2017 21:20

I love Brussels sprouts. Obviously not to eat, but because when DD was a toddler, she told very fierce GMIL that she loved sprouts and cabbage and could she have seconds please.

Ever since then GMIL has been prepared to overlook the fact that I work and wear jeans because I am a Proper Mother despite it all.

LurkingHusband · 31/08/2017 21:22

wrt Courgettes, aubergines and marrows, I can't help but feel the good Dr. Johnson had it spot on ....

"It has been a common saying of physicians in England, that a cucumber should be well sliced, and dressed with pepper and vinegar, and then thrown out, as good for nothing."

woman12345 · 31/08/2017 21:22

And in view of the way the DUP filtered Leave funding during the ref, and the bung they've just had, and their close affiliations with Steve Baker, Atlantic Bridge and all the rest, I don't think they can be relied on to talk Paul Dacre out of this.

Or wet tories, who have rarely been useful to man nor beast.

RandomlyGenerated · 31/08/2017 21:23

Rhubarb is a vegetable though.

Thatssomecatchthatcatch22 · 31/08/2017 21:25

Woman12345
You need some Muli in your life

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woman12345 · 31/08/2017 21:27

Turnip and sprout diet: Brexit gives back control but probably not to farters.

ElenaGreco123 · 31/08/2017 21:28

Rhubarb is a vegetable though.

I learn something new every day on this thread. Thanks.

Artisanjam · 31/08/2017 21:29

Would any minister really want to denote the exit day without parliamentary cover? There is still some authority in being able to say 'I took a shit decision but you all signed off on it' viz T Blair and the Iraq war.

Rhubarb is very versatile. Crumble, fool, pickle, compote, jam, muffin etc.

I'm rereading the long winter by Laura Ingalls Wilder and trying to imagine living on potato and salt for 7 months. Just in case, although I haven't tried growing potato this year.

RandomlyGenerated · 31/08/2017 21:30

You're welcome elena

It makes a great fool.

PS just filling in until an adult comes along.

prettybird · 31/08/2017 21:32

Great plum harvest this year. Also have pear tree that drops hundreds of thousands of pears from a great height. This time of year, you take your life in your hands when you go into that part of the garden.

Westminstenders: Russian Chatbots Take Over Brexit Debate
Peregrina · 31/08/2017 21:35

For country walkers - the hedgerows are full of ripening blackberries.

woman12345 · 31/08/2017 21:36

Brilliant year for blackberries, Peregrina. How's your garden doing prettybird?

Thatssomecatchthatcatch22 · 31/08/2017 21:37

OK. Is end of chatbot shift. Guards coming to take us back to gulag.
Do svidaniya!!
Keep talk on exotic wegetables ...NOT on Comrade May OK?

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