Westministenders: Oh No Not Another One. Thread that is.

[RedToothBrush]

In this edition of Westministers we play a game of ‘Where are they now?’

In June 2016 our screens were subjected to the sight of a number of particularly vocal MPs who participated in debates and stood on soap boxes to talk about the referendum.

The most noticeable of these for Leave were perhaps Boris Johnson, Michael Gove, Andrea Leadsom, Gisela Stuart, Nigel Farage, Priti Patel and Kate Hoey. For Remain it was David Cameron, George Osborne, Jeremy Corbyn, Ruth Davidson, Sadiq Khan, Nicola Sturgeon, Nick Clegg and Tim Farron.

It is starting to seem that anyone involved in campaigning either for or against Brexit in June 2016 has faced an epic battle for survival. Just how long can they last before being defeated or conceding defeat.

David Cameron’s scalp was the first to go, as he swanned off leaving everyone to clear up his mess.

Boris Johnson, who was keen to stamp his mark and pitch for the leadership by stitching up Cameron, got stitched up by Michael Gove who also lost his own bid for leadership as a result.

Johnson, of course, still lives to fight another day by getting a nice job as Theresa’s whipping boy. He’s occasionally let out by himself, but its Michael Fallon who does the ‘Grown Up Business’. He was said to be one of the last to support an early election. I can’t think why that might be.

Poor old Gove is now confined to a straight-jacket, the back benches where he’s been told to think about what he’s done like a naughty school child and a column in the Times

Andrea Leadsom was sent to a field of cows never to be seen again except to pop up for the odd cameo line shouting about ‘Jam’.

Queen Theresa also dealt with the other Conservative Leader Leave Candidate Mr Liam Fox, by shipping him off to every dodgy corner of the global to get pampered by state hostility.

Stephen Crabb simply crawled back under his rock.

The announcement of the General Election seems to be like the major soap incident episode where half the cast get killed off by a totally unrealistic disaster because their acting contracts weren’t being renewed.

The quitters and abdicators who now have legged it at the sight of a General Election are Gisela ‘Champion of the Brexit Bus’ Stuart and Nigel ‘Too chicken to be defeated for an eighth time and risk losing my nice EU pension’ Farage. George Osborne took the advice of his school teachers and had another career to fall back on when he didn’t become successful in his first choice.

Its rather starting to look like the curse of being a leading Brexiteer is to be made to disappear off the face of the earth or fuck off when the going gets tough. Have you seen Priti Patel lately? Does she even still exist? And Chris Grayling? He was convinced he was going to get chancellor when he supported May in her bid for the leadership.
Instead he got packed off transport and disappeared off the face of the earth much to the annoyance of everyone caught up in the rail strikes.

The only one who is remotely visible seems to be David Davis and is like May’s pet poodle who just tries to please his owner.

It’s almost like the only one still standing or hasn’t been banished is Kate Hoey. And the Lib Dems are trying to work on that one and make her sink beneath the waves, on board her Alan Partridge Titanic once and for all.

Conversely the visible Remainers seem to be – on the face of it - fairing rather better at the moment.

Sadiq Khan is hugely popular and actually does his job rather than fannying about on zip wires. Ruth Davidson is also well respected and apparently has saved Priti Patel’s job from abolition. If the rumours are to be believed bored with scrapping with Nicola, she might be lining herself up for ‘Big Things’ in Westminister. Cameron’s one time love interest, Nick Clegg hasn’t shaken the tarnish of the coalition but he is enjoying a new reputation as the Brexit Soothsayer and some people actually know who Tim Farron is now, which is progress. Nicola Sturgeon is of course riding high and seems to be a permanent thorn in Theresa’s side.

Jeremy ‘I’m a Remainer, honest comrades’ Corbyn is the one who seems to be something of a walking disaster area yet is also thriving with it like a zombie who just keeps going regardless of what you throw at him.

And then of course there is Queen Theresa. The Remainer. Who has crushed everyone in her party. Not just the saboteurs. Even her supposed ally Hammond and BBF Rudd have been thrown under the bus at her wimb when its suited May personally.

The General Election now sets a new scene and opportunity for new characters to emerge. Now the rats have left the ship or been put in their place.

Will May set course to the left or to the right or simply plow on like a bull in a china shop?

Anyway I’m now looking forward to the shocking soap opera moment where your favourite hero or villain gets killed off in a twist you didn’t see coming. Role on June 8th. If only to get pass the upcoming horror of the next six weeks.

I get really annoyed how people always look to blame the Labour party, and I am not normally one of their supporters, so it's not me with an axe to grind.
Me too. I'm more than happy if someone can point to a minister when in charge and say their policy or when not in charge their support of a policy can be blamed but not the general 'it's labours fault mate'.

mother please vote, even if it's a local independent with no chance of being elected. Look at how much we talk of the 30 ish percent who didn't vote in the referendum.

I don't find it that hard I suppose. I've never voted with a rosette, I've always voted with the idea of voting for the best policies though in reality I always go for the least worst option!

Though I have always done that with a look mainly at national interest. Since I've seen what my local mp has voted on or for and realised they're the root of the non racist leave reasons, i won't vote national again. In my eyes he's not even voted with Official Tory policy because he is far less a reasonable person than our ukip candidate was not that I voted for him anyway but it speaks volumes to me of the failing in our system.

We still have a post office - for now....

www.theguardian.com/commentisfree/2017/apr/25/dirty-little-secret-opinion-polls-general-election-why-wrong?CMP=twt_gu
Polling’s dirty little secret: why polls have been wrong before and will be again

Not Jeremy Corbyn levels of wrong though.

www.buzzfeed.com/emilydugan/these-people-say-theyre-going-hungry-because-of-the?utm_term=.pmbOKROL5#.cc69Gg97l
These People Say They're Going Hungry Because Of The Government's Welfare Reforms

This is horrendous. Imagine rolled out in Brexit Britain.

Normally this doesn't deter me but I can't bring myself to vote labour this time. Jeremy Corbyn has done a terrible thing to the party

I'm in the same position and I've decided to vote LD. I got a twinge when I saw Keir Starmer on the front of the Grauniad saying Labour would stay in the single market and guarantee rights of EU nationals. But then I thought why is Starmer saying this? where the fuck is Corbyn? Can we even be sure that would happen? That's the problem. And every vote for Corbyn will only encourage him to stay.

It's so depressing - if Starmer was leader and thus in a position to promise plausibly a soft Brexit Labour could do well.

Nancy, I agree. I don't know what the fuck to do. I live in a very safe Labour seat with a high Remain vote and ostensibly/initially Remain MP who has since utterly toed the Corbyn line on the EU.

I have always voted Labour before, but I joined the LDs after the ref.

I don't know who the local LD candidate will be and really can't decide whether to vote for them or to vote Labour just to try to keep the Tories out.

I wish Corbyn would piss off and leave Starmer to it.

But then I thought why is Starmer saying this?

Because he's the Brexit Minister! But agree, I'd love him as Leader.

I'm also very pleased that Labour will guarantee the rights of EU citizens currently legally resident. Morally it's the right thing to do.

If you are a Remainer I'd argue that this is not the election for a protest vote - if your sitting MP is a Labour Remainer, back them, ditto sitting Lib Dems. If Ken Clarke is your MP, vote for him! If you vote against a sitting Remainer for a challenging Remain candidate there's a risk the vote is split and a Brexiter comes through the middle.

Although I like Keir Starmer, this new Labour policy on Brexit is not credible. They are now apparently all for guaranteeing the rights of EU residents. Why didn't they support the amendment when it came before parliament, then?!!

"I'm also very pleased that Labour will guarantee the rights of EU citizens currently legally resident. Morally it's the right thing to do. "

Why didn't they do this in parliament, when they had a chance to actually influence government policy?

Labour backed EU citizen-rights in the Lords, twice. Agree that it was handled badly by Labour in the Commons. However, better a sinner that repenteth....

I know so many people affected by this. People with EU spouses, people from one EU country with a spouse from another EU country, with a child who is British. It's a complete nightmare for them.

Break If your MP is Labour or Tory, and they have voted with the party, then whatever their personal views they are Brexiteers. It is slightly different if they are prominent Remainers like Lammy or Clarke who have spoken out on their views but for the rest they might as well be Brexiteers.

Our MP was a wet Tory remainer and now is a wet Tory Brexiteers, apart from having voted in favour of the Lords amendment on EU nationals. There is an argument going about in a majority Remain constituency, that their presence in parliament will be a civilising influence but in the absence of any evidence that they have any influence at all most voters are indeed voting for the Libdem Remain candidate.

I would say that you should consider all the local factors, your MPs stance and voting record and make a considered choice. There will be plenty of opportunity to cross examine assess the candidates in the weeks ahead.

"Why didn't they do this in parliament, when they had a chance to actually influence government policy?"

^^ This

We got a Conservative leaflet through the door yesterday that didn't mention elections or voting at all. Not once. Just a lot about how we need to "send a message to the SNP!". Bit given we have local elections as well as GE coming up here.

Anyone else seen this? I don't know what the regulations around campaign materials are, but this seems to be in something of a grey zone, surely?

I was shouting something similar this morning at the tv when listening to Starmer missmoon

It was all hunky dory until you realised it was a vote loser eh? Grr

That's why we're leaving. We all have an EU passport (French and Irish) but DH doesn't have a British one. Not waiting to see what will happen re residency rights. So sadly the UK loses two experienced (very in DH's case) teachers from London state system where there's a recruitment issue. And we're language teachers and quite a proportion of our colleagues are EU citizens and looking to get out too. Just as well kids hate languages, they're at risk of becoming a bloody difficult subject to staff! We know other families who have already gone, one not even from the EU but because of the rise in racism they've experienced since the ref, and they took out a teacher, a SEND specialist TA, a nurse and a childminder. We're leaving for the good of our family, but I really worry about what will happen to children still in the U.K. Teachers salaries have been crap for ages, there's no chance of an 8% pay rise there, school funding is already being slashed (classes of 32 for A level, anyone? It's what we're teaching as of this year) and will go further, they're in denial about a teacher shortage, and I suspect they're going to see a steady EU drain over the next couple of years. On top of all the UK teachers who are leaving the profession, and the fuck up that is the new exam systems! Same story as for health and other public sector services.

People need to wake up and think about health and education for this election. It's already screwed up, if it gets any worse it's going to ruin the education of a generation.

I assume this nasty article retweeted by Andrew Neil is more looking at France through Brexit /Beer goggles? blogs.spectator.co.uk/2017/04/real-winner-frances-presidential-election-francois-hollande/#

Because he's the Brexit Minister!

Clearly, but my point is that Brexit policy should be defined by Corbyn not Starmer alone. Corbyn has said f all on Brexit, we don't know if he even agrees with Starmer, and Starmer isn't in a position to implement this policy - plus the stance on EU citizens has apparently changed since the matter was before Parliament. Complete mess.

I showed DH the BBC article on MLP stepping down and he thought it was a total non-issue - "well obviously, you can't be president and the party leader. She's just showing, or trying to show, how confident she is about winning." I don't think it's an actual rule, but generally the president isn't the party leader, so he thought it was normal. Just got a shrug.

Also I think the British are really struggling with understanding that whilst 25% in the first round isn't amazing what's the Tory vote share? it's not that bad by French standards. Loads of people I know use the first round as either the opportunity to vote for the niche person they really want who they know won't get through, or as a protest vote, with the clear understanding that they will then pick their presidential choice in the second round ( or le vote blanc, neither candidate). Admittedly this has led to some upsets in the past, but normally there is at least one of the big party candidates to choose from, and this time a lot of people find Macron acceptable, especially given the alternatives. So the vote is always pretty split in the first round.

Well
Now I'm in a pickle
I think the lib dems where I am are going to field a brexiter!
Ffs!
Now what do I do!!

Faisal Islam @faisalislam
LAbour position: does not want membership of Single MArket as currently constituted, but it might want it if EEA reforms Freedom of Movement

There have been noises about FoM reform but at this point due to May's direction I think EU unlikely to go for this. Plus i don't see how that squares with the whole anti-military thing either, when the general attitude seems to be a harder line in that department.

The trouble with only coming out with this at this stage, is it's too late. The agenda has been set elsewhere previously in talking about FoM. Whilst I'd welcome a compromise rather than a harder solution if maintaining things as they stand isn't an option, this now ends up looking more like a fudge or a half assed attempt to please everyone rather than it genuinely being a credible solution and compromise.

This is why it was important to act harder, earlier rather than roll over and try and play catch up.

Why couldn't they have set this out in plan terms months ago?

Ask him how your prospective LD candidate would vote? Would they follow or defy the whip?

Usually lurk, but breaking out in utter despair. Thank you for these threads, feel less on my own. My MP is an ultra extreme blue-KIP brexiteer with no chance of losing. No idea who the Labour candidate will be (but will have no chance) and the LD candidate has come out as a LD-brexiteer! What a choice! Am a Greenie, but have usually voted tactically for Labour and LD in the past, whichever was needed. MP has also shafted us very badly on local issues, totally self-serving. What to do??