Brexit survey - Impact of the Greek crisis

[Varinia]

If you voted to LEAVE the EU in last year’s referendum, please give up 2 minutes of your time to complete a very short survey conducted by the University of Bedfordshire (demographics and two questions only) on the effect of the Greek crisis on your decision to vote leave.
If you can, please also share with friends and family where relevant as we're looking for as large a sample as possible.
Thank you very much in advance

bedshealthsciences.eu.qualtrics.com/jfe/form/SV_ebT7Lg8u33L3ctn

Well you are 'wholly' wrong Peregrina.

Heres a history refresher, just in case you werent here over the last 30 years.

www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-politics-15390884

Thank you for the patronising history lesson Carolinesbeanies. I don't know how long you have been around, but I have been here a lot longer than the last thirty years, and was old enough to vote in the 1975 Referendum. Were you? I am sorry that I didn't spell out to you that I was talking about the 2016 Referendum, which I will do so in future.

I am surprised that you didn't recognise whose words “catfight in Conservative party" were, although I missed the ending which said "that got out of hand”.

How is Peregrina totally wrong Caroline?

In this situation YOU are wrong, the EU didn't have anything to do with the question set, that was the Government and the electoral commission. They didn't decide whether the referendum would only give two options, that would be Cameron and the Tories when they said in their manifesto that they would have an in/out referendum vote.

They didn't decide whether the referendum would only give two options, that would be Cameron and the Tories when they said in their manifesto that they would have an in/out referendum vote.

Im pretty sure it wasn't just 'Cameron and the Tories' who voted the holding of an 'in/out' referendum through the 2 houses though.

There were attempts to make changes to it, but these were voted down, mainly as the referendum was advisory. It was voted through mainly because it was on the Tory manifesto and they won the majority government.

However, its still incorrect to blame the EU for what appeared on the ballot.

The Referendum was hard fought for over many years it really wasn't a result of a cat fight by one particular party what a load of simplistic nonsense

It's the soundbite of choice at the moment^^ Infinite, of the same vein as 'have cake & eat it' 'you Brexit, you Fixit' etc.

'Cat fight in the Conservative Party' and 'You Brexit, you Fixit' are just as good as soundbites as 'Take Back Control' or '35 million a week for the NHS' the latter of which the Leave camp reneged on as fast as they could.

In my original post I mentioned how the legislation was voted through by Parliament. It most certainly was a cat fight in the Tory party - it ruined Major's prime ministership and may or may not have helped to terminate Thatcher's (although personally I credit the Poll Tax for doing the major damage to her). There was no real appetite in the country for a Referendum on the EU, apart from the Tory zealots and some Labour party stalwarts e.g. Dennis Skinner, (who incidentally I have a lot of respect for although I don't share his politics) were also supportive. But the average person? No. The Tories themselves were happy to put a paragraph about supporting the Single Market in their manifesto..

the Lib Dems had a manifesto commitment to a referendum.

'Cat fight in the Conservative Party' and 'You Brexit, you Fixit' are just as good as soundbites as 'Take Back Control' or '35 million a week for the NHS' the latter of which the Leave camp reneged on as fast as they could.

No-one on this thread is using those leave soundbites though, are they?

Perhaps it's your understanding of the views of "the average person" that's the problem here Peregrina and why you are still trying to paint Brexit as an internal Tory squabble.

Neither Dennis Skinner not the Tory party are "the average person". Clearly many, including the political establishment, eg Cameron, were completely out of touch with "the average person" otherwise they wouldn't have called the referendum. Once given the chance to vote on EU membership, the majority vote of "the ordinary person" was to leave.

No leaver can really quote the 35 million for the NHS though, can they, with the leaders of the Leave camp letting the side down by reneging on this within 24 hours? I don't know why you aren't screaming blue murder about this. Johnson is in Government and Gove still sits on the Tory benches. I agree holding Gisela Stuart to account as a Labour politician is a bit trickier.

Brexit is now no longer an internal party squabble, it's divided the country in two and divided friends and families.

No leaver can really quote the 35 million for the NHS though, can they, with the leaders of the Leave camp letting the side down by reneging on this within 24 hours? I don't know why you aren't screaming blue murder about this.

I got over it pretty much the same week the slogan was launched tbh.

Why would anyone be screaming about it still?

Brexit is now no longer an internal party squabble, it's divided the country in two and divided friends and families.

I agree and I can only see this getting worse. God knows what will happen in NI.

I think the number of people who will be happy with whatever the eventual outcome of all this is, is going to be tiny.

Why would anyone be screaming about it still?

If I had voted Leave because I expected the NHS to be given decent support, I would be extremely angry about this. Even if I didn't expect it to be £350 million a week.

I can add, that I am angry about the lack of support for the NHS, although fortunately, most of my family have made few demands on it. I still think it's valuable and we need a proper debate about how to cover the problems caused by an aging population. A debate which is not happening.

"Why would anyone be screaming about it still?"

Because it clearly made a difference to the vote, it can be denied all you like but it wouldn't have been one of the most prominent slogans and points of the leave campaign had it not. There are numerous peices of evidence showing leave campaigners denying that it was incorrect.

In such a close vote wilfully misleading the electorate like that makes a big difference.

Someone said months ago that they could have put anything on the side of the bus, and they chose comments about the NHS for a reason. They didn't put comments about Greece on the side of the bus. I imagine that it wouldn't have captured the public's attention in quite the same way.

the £350 million has only been quoted by remainers AFAIK. It was a big news story because the remain vote, rightly, ridiculed it. I find it difficult to believe there are many people who saw it and didn't see the challenges to it.

Carol, the £350 million has only been quoted by remainers? It was a massive part of the campaign, indeed it was on posters, the side of the bus etc.

"I find it difficult to believe there are many people who saw it and didn't see the challenges to it."

Seriously? You think it was such a prominent part of the campaign, for the whole of the campaign because it wasn't an effective tool to convince people.

Its all very well SOME leavers on hear saying that they never believed in it, and that of course therefore neither did anyone else. But that then is tarring you with the same brush (which you don't like).

It was of course believed by some of those voting leave, and as it was a main tenet of the campaign we can probably draw the conclusion that a significant minority did believe it. Maybe enough to swing the overall referendum.

Oh yes, but rounded down to 350 million according to the odious Dominic Cummings who was a major shyster strategist of the Leave campaign. He said that there would be 10's of billions to go around after brexit. They also produced Leaflets saying 'Protect your local hospital' on a vote leave leaflet with an NHS logo in the corner. One can only surmise it was to fool people that it had been produced by the NHS. My goodness, and he calls other people charlatans. Andrew Tyrie had one on the parliamentary committee which had been placed in Guy's Hospital. Of course, Cummings was connected with the not so honourable Gove.

www.theguardian.com/politics/2016/apr/20/accuracy-is-for-snake-oil-pussies-vote-leaves-campaign-director-defies-mps

What's the point of arguing over what is now history? Isn't it better that we actually start working for our future now?

I also fail to see why we should continually demand that leave voters justify themselves. They voted that way because they thought it was the right thing to do. I voted remain because on balance I thought it the right thing.

If you started questioning my reasons and telling me why I voted the way I did you would be getting very short shrift.

Because the reasons that people gave for voting leave are shaping the policy towards the future?

They're not shaping the future, because there seems to be no one asking them in an official capacity why they voted the way they did.

If we had voted remain nobody would of asked us why we did and what we wanted our future relationship to be. Personally I would of wanted reform of the EU.

"I find it difficult to believe there are many people who saw it and didn't see the challenges to it."

The Remain campaign challenged it. Gisela Stuart of Leave herself knew that it was a lie because it didn't include the rebate given. But it was good propaganda.

What's the point of arguing? Because it was the one tangible promise made; people value having the NHS; so the least that any Govt. can do is be held to what many took to be a pledge. Why should a handful of Tory right wingers and the rump of UKIP and UKIP deserters get to decide the direction the country goes in? (Nearly all of whom are extremely wealthy, and will be able to buy healthcare.)