Arguing about Brexit on the internet

[WidowWadman]

Jon Worth has written this specifically about Twitter, but I think it applies for this sub forum too. I know that certainly I'm being worn down, surely others feel it too. Look after yourselves.

jonworth.eu/new-less-tolerant-approach-twitter/

What's the point in engaging and trying to discuss with someone with a fundamentally opposed opinion? There isn't one. You're not going to change their minds, you're just going to drive yourself mad.
Your one on newsnight that said she decided to vote Leave because she got confused in Aldi by straight bananas...whats the fucking point trying to reason with someone that thick?

Well, for you, conversation may be all about trying to change people's minds. I'm quite interested in trying to understand other people's views and opinions and even contemplating that I might change my mind about some issues once I learn more about the. But each to their own, I suppose.

them not the

Because the reason to answer those comments isn't to change the mind of the person with opposite views or stupid views (according to you) but to do so for all the people that read these threads, never post but will be influenced by the answers.

500 posts saying you need to leave the EU because of straight bananas or less powerful hoovers need to be counterbalanced by other opinions. Otherwise the fact we are lkeqvubg to avoid gettingbstraight bananas is becoming the truth iyswim.

That's also why it's so important to NOt insult or put people down. Because if you want to counterbalance a POV that is wrong (to you) you need to look like you know what you are saying, not a lunatic and only knows how to swear.

Well, for you, conversation may be all about trying to change people's minds. I'm quite interested in trying to understand other people's views and opinions and even contemplating that I might change my mind about some issues once I learn more about the. But each to their own, I suppose.

YY.
I am always more driven by trying to understand the other viewpoints, whether I agree with them or not.

wrong you move around these threads always saying people need to 'understand' each other but what you are spectactularly failing to grasp is that, in order to 'understand' someone you have to get to the bottom of their reasoning for their choices.

When that reasoning completely fails to have accounted for any adverse consequences then discussion will always turn to why they didn't think about the negatives as well as the positives.

At that point Leavers here always resort to 'we won, you lost, get over it'

Those consequences are starting to come to fruition and still the party line is nothing more than 'yay we're leaving'

If you are so determined to make me and others 'understand' please could you attempt to answer my eternal question about consequences i.e. How do you see the following issues being resolved without great cost both monetary and otherwise

• lack of investment due to uncertainty
• Brexit induced inflation
• tariffs
• NTB's
• lack of job security
• lack of security for EU citizens in U.K. and UK citizens in EU
• NI

wrong you move around these threads always saying people need to 'understand' each other

Blimey, you make it sound like I'm doing something wrong by posting on different threads and by suggesting that people try to understand other's point of view....and are you following me???

but what you are spectactularly failing to grasp is that, in order to 'understand' someone you have to get to the bottom of their reasoning for their choices

Well, no, you have to do your best to try to understand their reasoning and choices, but none of us can completely understand each other. It is your responsibility to try to understand, with good faith, as well as for the other person to explain. And I could answer your big long list of q's and you would say my answers do not stand up to scrutiny, are wrong according to the evidence, etc, etc. But just to take one, the EU and UK migrants issue, as I have said before, I would like to see the gov unilaterally guarantee EU nationals' rights. However, I would have like to see the EU agree a reciprocal deal, but sadly Angela Merkel scuppered this. There are some down sides to leaving the EU. Any major change will have negative consequences. I think the way the EU is dealing with this issue is absolutely par for the course, and a demonstration of why we need to leave now, before we are yet further entangled.

wrong I'm not stalking you anywhere, anyone is free to post wherever they like

It's a cop out to say you could answer my questions but won't

How can I begin to 'understand your reasoning and choice' if you can't discuss the basis for choosing to force upon us the things that concern me and every other Remainer?

It is the height of selfishness and arrogance to list the reasons you want something whilst completely failing to acknowledge the negative impact it has on others (which is why the nightclub analogy discussed elsewhere is nonsense- that choice doesn't affect anyone else so no one cares what other people's preference is in that scenario)

Lost the last bit-

As for blaming the EU for not being able to guarantee EU citizens rights- I sadly expect no better.

We are the ones leaving- we should make the first move but we won't because we want to use them as pawns.

As for blaming the EU for not being able to guarantee EU citizens rights- I sadly expect no better.

As has been said, I don't know how many times, each EU state makes it's own laws with regards to third countries, which is what we will be. I don't know whether Theresa May has grasped that yet.

Exactly peregrina which is why we should guarantee rights first and other countries can follow suit.

TM has resolutely refused to do this numerous times now so how can it possibly be the EU's fault?

I suspect that thought process is the shape of things to come i.e., the EU is the baddie for not realising how important we are and how they should bow down and let us have our own way for their own good.

Bear I know you are not stalking me - it was a joke. I hoped the would make that clear, if it wasn't already.

I know wrong my comment about stalking sounded harsher than intended!